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 Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:51 pm
And just for the record, it is not true that nobody can back their beliefs with real evidence. The Bible is backed by hundreds of ancient documents and accounts that retell the same stories that the Bible tells. For example almost all major empires or nations that have existed according to what the Bible says existed after the Flood one way or another have ancient legends weather altered or not of a great flood that covered all the earth. Some of these stories even tell of how only one family survived via large boat and that lines up with the Bible. Also, evidence has been found that carbon dating does not work for dating anything back any further than a few thousand years. http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/does-c14-disprove-the-bibleAND it does not take millions of years for coal and oil to form naturally because scientists have done so in a much shorter amount of time. And how could the grand canyon have been made but by a sudden movement in the earths plates and huge amounts of water? Also, every evolutionary stage of man that scientists think are relevent such as the pilt down man and neanderthal man have been hoaxes fabricated by people. http://www.nwcreation.net/evolutionfraud.htmlAlso evolution could not have been true because nothing as complicated as human life or anything that exists right down to molecules could have came about by accident and especialy not by a big explosion. please feel free to express your views.
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:49 am
FREAKAman01 Also evolution could not have been true because nothing as complicated as human life or anything that exists right down to molecules could have came about by accident and especialy not by a big explosion. please feel free to express your views. i agree it is too complecated for an accident. i am currently in a zoology class, and, if anything, it seems like it actually strengthens my belief in god. i believe in evolution as a process explaining how he did it.
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:11 am
I beleive it's a combination of both. I'm certain we did not evolve from monkies, despite the common ground parts. Netjer, or God, or Whatever Name you wish to call the Divine, made us and the universe. Everything was created, and as time goes, many species evolved to better survive while others either remained the same physically and simply adapted better strategies, and then many other species died out, some to natural occurances, most to human overpopulation and progress. In a way we evolve, but not really physically. Our evolution is through our progress, going from cavemen to businessmen in suits. I don't believe in the flood theory that exists in the bible. Two of each kind of animal. This would cause alot of inbreeding and genetic defects which would drastically reduce and animal's ability to survive in the wild, or even at all. That bit has been proven by science.
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Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:57 pm
one thing I always wonder about though is the dinosaurs.
The Bible says in six days everything was created, all animals
and all things were to produce after it's kind, so I think the dinosaurs
were included in that but.... how they died off I'm not sure.
something like the Flood would probably cause huge differences
in the atmosphere and stuff like that so my theories are either
the earth was changed so drasticly that it couldn't support the life of
such a large reptile, or that humans killed them off by hunting.
which I suppose might account for the legends of dragons and
dragon slayers and things like that.
one other thing is that people have found huge dragonflies and huge
versions of our animals as fossils. so another theory is that since
alot of current day reptiles don't stop growing until they die,
dinosaurs were just big lizards.
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Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:47 pm
I assume you got all of the information that you posted in the first post from the internet? That's why most of it is bogus. And I'll say why:
((First: my opinion is that both happened))
1: There are no hundreds of documents backing the Bible. Truly, there aren't. The Bible was WRITTEN by man, and therefor not the direct word of God. It has probably been altered in major ways by the old people of the Earth.
2: Those stories are based off of the individual first story. It's been proven that there was not a huge flood covering the whole world. There would be evidence of it. Science proves that (and if you have an issue with science, read this: If you want to prove something to someone, you show them an example, right? That's how scientists prove things, by scale or equal experiments) there was no huge world-wide flood. However, the area near the Red Sea did flood hugely in history.
3: Carbon Dating is working on half-lives. So anything that hasn't been destroyed by a few thousand years worth of Environmental degration, would have such small half-lives, that the process couldn't be accurate.
4: What does coal and oil have to do with the Bible, or evolution at all? And further more, do you know the exact preferences that the coal and oil was created (artificially, since man created it)? I think not.
5: It was not made by a plate shift, or a huge amount of water all of the sudden-like. It was made over a long time. A small stream in the ground ended up disintegrating through the sands, and creating the canyon. (Think of letting a hose flow water in the sand or dirt)
6: Have you any proof that they are hoaxes? And why is the relevance of its truthfulness or not relate to the arguments between religion and evolution? People are the ones that make this "evidential" web sites, and are probably not factual at all.
7: For me to discredit this paragraph, I shall show the comparisons between Evolution and Religion.
We evolved from small molecular organisms. God created man from the dust.
The big bang created the Universe. Does the Bible say how he created things? Couldn't it have been a Big Bang that God created and in turn, the universe? And hint: everything is made of molecules, so you can't use it as a complex base, because it's widespread and therefor normal.
Stars and such are made of heat, you can admit to that yes? So how would all of the stars and everything come into existence if it were not in a wondrous explosion?
---
As to this "six day" concept, I shall reiterate words spoken at the Scopes Trial, or near it. Who are we to determine how many hours were in a day for God?
That said, how would men know how God created Everything since he wasn't created until the Fifth day? Must it have been a twenty four hour day? Go ahead, when you die, I'll let you confront God about his concepts of Days, and argue with him. Let's see who wins that one, shall we?
X]
---
I don't see why people insist on separating the two, Religion and Science. People just like the mystery in Religion, and don't want to add proof through science. And Science-ers don't want to take that leap into trusting in something that isn't proven before they can test and the prove it themselves. It isn't real until it's proven.
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Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:49 pm
On that note, God can't just randomly perform strange things. He created this universe, and it's scientific rules. If you ask me, He is a pretty bright fellow.
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Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:54 am
Ink_Weaver_Heart On that note, God can't just randomly perform strange things. He created this universe, and it's scientific rules. If you ask me, He is a pretty bright fellow. yeah, thats kinda how i see it. scientists are doing nothing more than discovering the processes by which things happen. their findings do not disprove the existance of god, they strengthen it by showing the organized way by which the world works. all that organization cant logically be by random accident. Someone/Something had to have set it that way, namly God (by my beliefs, anyway).
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:35 pm
FREAKAman01 one thing I always wonder about though is the dinosaurs. The Bible says in six days everything was created, all animals and all things were to produce after it's kind, so I think the dinosaurs were included in that but.... how they died off I'm not sure. something like the Flood would probably cause huge differences in the atmosphere and stuff like that so my theories are either the earth was changed so drasticly that it couldn't support the life of such a large reptile, or that humans killed them off by hunting. which I suppose might account for the legends of dragons and dragon slayers and things like that. one other thing is that people have found huge dragonflies and huge versions of our animals as fossils. so another theory is that since alot of current day reptiles don't stop growing until they die, dinosaurs were just big lizards. Some scientists think that the world went through a huge climate change that triggered an ice age. Most of the world's temperature plummeted to extremely cold degrees. Of course, some of the dinosaurs survived. Birds are the decendants of dinosaurs, and all the lizards are decendants as well. I think Ink_Weaver's got a point about the flood. If the flood was really world wide, then there would be no way that we would still be here. The killing off of numerous species of animals, plants, and humans would be too much of an impact on the world, that it would just be nearly impossible for the remaining life to survive. The Red Sea's flooding seems like a more valid option. Also, the reason why bugs and things were so huge is because there was such a huge supply of oxygen on the earth. Once time went on, the oxygen level steadily dropped and the creatures got smaller.
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 12:52 pm
Was not the theory of evolution WRITTEN by man? Also all scripture all scripture was inspired by God. And another thing, if evolution is true how you trust your thoughts? Maybe you have a chemical in there backwards.
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:27 pm
Genesis_verse_1 Was not the theory of evolution WRITTEN by man? Also all scripture all scripture was inspired by God. And another thing, if evolution is true how you trust your thoughts? Maybe you have a chemical in there backwards.
I, for one, am going to trust my thoughts forever. My theory is that our capabilities of thought (which man revieved a few million years ago or something) was the "eating of the fruit from the tree of life."
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:20 pm
Scripture is inspired by God. Couldn't man alter the theory of evolution? Scripture can be proven by our obedience to The Law. All wisdom begins with obedience to the Ten Commandments. Why is it hard to believe that God exists and He is Love? I heard countless stories on how people were absolutely lost in life and many wanted to commit suicide. God saved them not evolution.
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:32 pm
Genesis_verse_1 Scripture is inspired by God. Couldn't man alter the theory of evolution? Scripture can be proven by our obedience to The Law. All wisdom begins with obedience to the Ten Commandments. Why is it hard to believe that God exists and He is Love? I heard countless stories on how people were absolutely lost in life and many wanted to commit suicide. God saved them not evolution.
You cannot tell for certain if what was written was inspired by God. Man cannot alter what has happened (much as he is able to alter what is written). We cannot change what has occurred in the many millenia.
Scripture is incapable of being proven. And even you will agree. It cannot be proven, because it is ONLY through faith that religion succeeds (going to heaven and whatnot). Wisdom begins with enlightenment and thought, not through obedience. Obedience closes the minds to questioning, and therefore, wisdom. It is not hard to believe that God exists, but it is impossible to prove.
And it is not God that saves them, it is the theory of God. The Idea of religion. God does not reach his hand down and scoop them up from mid air as they fall to their death. And it is not evolution nor God that saves them, it is faith and reinvigorated belief in life and love. And not the love that is God but the love in God that saves them, or rather the love of the idea of God. Because it is just that, only an idea and religion. For it is not proven and therefore it is not certain.
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:05 pm
It is true man cannot alter what has happened on the past but man can alter what we know of the past. I know that the Bible was inspired by God because if it wasn't all that was said will be a lie and God cannot deny himself.
Obedience does not close off the mind to questioning but opens it. Once I started to follow God I wanted to know more and more and I asked Him questions and He answered!
If it is not God that saves them then how are prayers answered? When people are cornered in life they ask for a sign from God and He gives them a sign to let them know that they are there. I ask for signs all the time and I receive. Jesus said "Ask and you will receive." He doesn't forsake anyone except those that rebel. He is Love and Love love us.
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:22 pm
Genesis_verse_1 It is true man cannot alter what has happened on the past but man can alter what we know of the past. I know that the Bible was inspired by God because if it wasn't all that was said will be a lie and God cannot deny himself. Obedience does not close off the mind to questioning but opens it. Once I started to follow God I wanted to know more and more and I asked Him questions and He answered! If it is not God that saves them then how are prayers answered? When people are cornered in life they ask for a sign from God and He gives them a sign to let them know that they are there. I ask for signs all the time and I receive. Jesus said "Ask and you will receive." He doesn't forsake anyone except those that rebel. He is Love and Love love us.
If the Bible was corrupted, then it would not be God denying himself, because he did not write it. It would be the people who wrote in changes denying others true faith based on assumed truths.
Also, there can be no true obedience (which you say leads to wisdom and questions) because people are not perfect, men and women. And the definition of obedience is following without question, so how could obedience lead to questions? It cannot. As for these questions you asked him, it is impossible. You cannot speak directly to God, you can only have answered the questions that other people know the answers to based on the writings of men in the Bible. So many of the "words of God" are actually just interpretations of the Bible from people. One such being homosexuality. Nowhere in the Bible whatsoever does it mention limitations on love between man and women.
In response to prayers and signs and Love:
Prayers can be explained by simple chance, subconscious efforts to fulfill them aswell as conscious ones, and other people helping out as well. These "signs" that you speak of are nonexistant. God says that he does not perform outright miracles, and therefor these signs are nonexistant and impossible. These are only interpretations.
'He does not forsake anyone except those that rebel'
What? Is he running a government, and all of the little townspeople are not permitted to rebel? And when you say God is Love and Love love us (which, by the way is improperly worded pertaining to pluralization of the subject and verb) and when you say Jesus said "Ask and you shall recieve", you are merely stating quotes. Ask and you shall recieve is a message, not a literal proverb. It means that you need to ask for things, rather than demand things, for you will not recieve anything if you are cruel in demands. When you say God is Love, I hope dearly that you do not mean God IS Love, because if it is, then you are condemning all non-Christians to a life without love.
Do Buddhist women not love their children? Do Buddhist children not love their parents?
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 4:02 pm
Ah...my friend God's name has been forgotten by evolution. What Jesus said was true. I ask for signs and I receive signs. This is the fruit of evolution: coincidence. God watches over us at every moment of our life. Life cannot be based on coincidence but the watchful eyes of God.
Why do you think I am the way I am? Why would I go and teach something I once thought was not true? Why would I spend most of my time for God and the work He assigned me to do than focus on myself and do what I want to do?
God is often misunderstood in many ways. He has said "your thinking is not My Thinking, your way is not My Way." Therefore I don't rely on what I think or believe or what others believe I try to think like God which is why I say what I say.
Who are you to say to me that these signs are not real or that He doesn't answer my prayers? One day I got home from school after having many arguments with my peers, I was very stressed and I prayed to God to show me a message from a book called True Life in God (www.tlig.org) that Jesus wrote and I got a message and you can read it on my profile. He actually says "tell them"! Jesus makes himself low so that He may raise us up! You think it is impossible to talk to God, I know that God is listening.
As for obedience I never ask why do you want me to do this. I ask Jesus to to show me things I don't understand. Does the clay ever say to the potter "why are you making me this way? this way would be better.
Also it is true that no one is perfect; however it is not impossible to be. My friends have noticed the drastic change in my attitude and I still have a long way to go.
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