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 Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 2:37 pm
For those of you who don't know, Schrodinger's cat is a hypothetical experiment. You put a cat inside a steel box with no ways of exit, and then take a tiny amount of radioctive material. Something that may or may not decay within an hour. You set this up with a Geiger counter and flask of poison, if the counter detects any radioactive substance, the flask falls and the cat supposedly dies. But quantum superposition theories state that while inside the box, it is always in a state of being dead and alive at the same time. Upon opening the box, though, you will either find a dead cat or an alive cat.
Who believes this state of being 'dead and alive' is possible? ♥
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Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:25 pm
really, until I read this topic, I had no reason why Scroedinger did what he did.
I just thought he was a cat-hater
I'm kidding, of course, but I digress.
I think that, since there are only two probabilities in this situation, it's really not okay to say the cat's alive OR dead.
since you can't say for sure, it's NEITHER alive OR dead.
but I'd need to know more about the theory to be certain.
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:45 am
i believe it is possible, becuz there may be other realities parallel to our own. in one reality we may be alive, when in our reality u may be dead. this is kind of related to the "many worlds" theory, which i would gladly explain but i dont wanna get off topic.
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:16 pm
I think it is indeed possible. For unless you specifically know the state that a person (or cat) is in at that moment you cannot say for certain what state they are in. Most people would assume that another life-form is alive. But until you actually are able to see them or varify that your assumption is correct you have no idea if they are alive. That is why people get such a shock when they find out about a death. To them the person was still alive at the moment of their death, but in actuality the person was not. XP, confused yet? So essentially, in a person's mind (Fred's) another person (Lucy) is alive until Fred knows that Lucy is dead. So, when Lucy dies, until Fred knows about it he believes Lucy is alive. So at that point, Lucy's physical body is dead but to Fred she is alive. So, both!
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Khalida Nyoka Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:25 pm
I think there has been a major misinterpretation of the perpetual unseen zombie-cat experiment.
The cat isn't dead and alive. It is more a problem of probability (the bulk of Quantum physics is really a study of probability). At any point in time, the Geiger counter may or may not detect radiation. So at any time the cat may be dead or alive. Based on probabilities we could actually calculate, at any given moment the cat could be dead or alive. However, because it is probabalistic (therefore not definite), the only way we can ever know if the cat is dead or alive at any point would be to open the box.
tl:dr
No undead kittens here.
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:23 pm
I can't say that I believe in it but I definately do grasp this hypothetical state of influx between life or death.
but then again what the bleep do I know XD
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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:18 pm
Neoklassisch
Who believes this state of being 'dead and alive' is possible? ♥That question really has nothing to do with Schrodinger's cat experiment. o_O It is a scientific experiment, not a philosophical one; and though certainly it brings up questions that are philosophical, it is not by nature itself philosophical. (Thus why Objectivists hate it.) Really it has more to do with "states" or "observable states" and an "observer". I like what Jenn_antiviolahater said about it, because she was talking about observation, and how the power of observation has an effect on the real "actual" circumstance, or state, of Fred's friend Lucy. Mostly what this boils down to is the phenomenon experienced with light experiments, as light coexists as waves and particles at the same time! Yet, when we observe it, it is either one or the other. In fact, our very observation of the light makes it perform differently than had we not observed it, as if the light knew we were looking and thus conciously chose to behave differently because of it! surprised It's quite amusing. xd
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:58 am
Even without quantum laws I can relate that dead while alive exists. Not near death or OBE, but DEAD and more cognisent than any other point in my life.....I have partial seizures and my newly ex-fiance invited me to spend the weekend. Two days before going up to stay from Fri, to Sun., I had thrown out my medication. I felt fine, but by Sat. morn things were a bit wacky...at 8pm I had the 1st of what they think was 10 Grand Mals, each one lasting 15-30 minutes. I was taken, at least thats what they related to me, to the hospital after the 6th.....and was doa. Yet my mind continued to be aware that there were people about who were alive, and I was also amongst the literally dead. Then 45 mins later the finally revived me, and couldn't believe I could both walk and talk.....note: I had to use post it notes for the next to weeks, and by the ton. My short term memory was wiped.
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:13 pm
Depends on how you see being alive, if it is leaving emotion free ways, most people are dead and simply do only exist. Or a comatose patient appears to be in a gray zone, between dead or alive.
I think the cat experiment is really nothing about philosophy. It's about quantum physics, which interests me also. The cat being dead or alive without knowing about is probably a metaphor about putting a quantum into a coherent stage, where it could react specifically.
Quantums are ruled by certain influences (temperature, sorrounding q's, gravity, pressure, and so on), the coherent stage is arrived by removing all influences. Just imagine seeing the "Mona Lisa" without a frame, that would be the coherent quantum, ok it could probably, because a coherent quantum could be everything and anything in that stage. In that stage the quantum allows to induce a specific influence reacting only to this one, which is also the base for quantum computers and teleportation.
You see? Easier, than people think 3nodding
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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:54 pm
I was just reading up on this concept today. Admittedly, it was on wikipedia, so my info may be suspect. I think that it is possible for the cat to be simultaneously dead and alive because the observer percieves both possibilities at the same time. Regardless of whether the cat is actually dead or alive, the observer cannot behave as if it were one way or another because s/he does not know.
I think that reality is affected by observers' preceptions of it because an observer acts based on his/her percieved reality, not necessarily the acutal reality.
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:22 am
I believe that when you have only two options, even if the options have equal probability of being right, its impossible to choose both as truth.
Its something very simple, the laws of logic, A=A, A=/=B and A=A if A=/=B.
Logic is the limt of the mind therefore its impossible to assume that a cat is dead and alive, he is either dead or alive, it doesnt care if the observer knows about it because ultimately there are only two options are those options can't be right at the same time.
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:37 pm
Quantum physics do not work with 1 and 0, there is not true/false. Quantums are able to work quadrinary!
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Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:12 am
leiaki I can't say that I believe in it but I definately do grasp this hypothetical state of influx between life or death. but then again what the bleep do I know XD That's what I always think of when I read/talk about stuff like this. razz I think it makes as much sense as any other supposition. I see reality as quite perceptual, so quantum physics and related subjects are quite fascinating to me.
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:41 pm
"4 People get into an empty lift, 5 come out!"
The common physician would say: "That's not possible."
The mathematician would say: "One has to get in to empty the lift again."
The quantum physician would say: " Yes, because the fifth guys quantums materialised in the lift."
Quantums build a quadrinary information unit in quantum computers.
Common computers are only able to react with 1 or 0 because they are guided by little powerswitches, defining the information unit: on and off
Quantum computers work with the influences to either a single quantum or a group of quantums with coherence (0/0/0/0) or influence them by single conditions (0/0/0/1, 0/0/1/0, 0/1/0/0, 1/0/0/0), dual conditions (0/0/1/1, 0/1/1/0, 1/1/0/0, 0/1/0/1, 1/0/1/0, 1/0/0/1), and so on.
Common CPUs only think either on or off at the same time, while a quantum CPU thinks those four units at the same time. Of course quantum processors are not small, they are considered to become large, but they will most likely beat our current computer technology for ages.
The four answers to Schroedingers Cat:
The cat is dead.
The cat is alive.
The cat is dead and alive.
The cat is neither dead nor alive.
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Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:05 am
Neoklassisch Who believes this state of being 'dead and alive' is possible? Everyone is alive yet paradoxically everyone is in fact dead. For they do not know what life actually means and deny the causality in which allows life to even exist. They're alive, but to them their dead inside. Besides that. Quantam physics is still a, hugely yet to be understood, science. Science has nothing to do with the reality of life and death. biggrin
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