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 Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:37 am
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Hi....I've seen people on here persecute other Christians of different denominations just because different beliefs, and not ones that contradict Christianity. I'm just writing this because I believe it's wrong. So I'm just going to point out a few things.....sorry if I don't express what I meant very well.
1) Different Beliefs Are Inevitable
No matter what, there are always going to be different beliefs. And this is not just in Christianity. It is in most of, if not all areas. You cannot avoid them. It's likely that you believe something that one of your friends thinks is incorrect. Are you going to persecute your friend because they belief something that you don't? Of course not! You are friends and you love and care for each other. Just like Christians *must* love and care for each other.
2) Don't Say Someone Isn't a Christian Because They're Of A Different Denomination
Recently I saw someone say that because someone was a Catholic, and I'm not pointing out any *user*names. Haha. See what I did there? I said "usernames" instead of..."names"...yeah, corny, anyway! There was a Christian who said that a Catholic person was not a Christian (and there was nothing the Catholic said that could give someone the right to say that). He said the Catholic person needed to repent. That didn't really doesn't make sense. Just because a person is a Catholic or Protestant or whatever doesn't mean they aren't Christian. It just means they have a certain set of beliefs. So, to make this known, they give their group a title. How would you feel is some random person said you weren't a Christian? You'd think (or say) "WHAT? What are you talking about?!? I KNOW I have followed the Biblical requirements to become a Christian and this person dares to say I'm not??? How dare they!!!" How do you think people of different Christian denominations feel when you say they aren't Christian just because they're of a different denomination. They won't always get mad. Sometimes they'll become sad and confused. But either way, the feeling won't be positive, I'm sure.
3) Focus On The Main Belief, Not The Others
So many people think that just because people believe certain things or don't believe what they believe, they aren't Christian. However, what people really need to do is focus on the Christian beliefs (The Trinity, God raised Jesus - who took all our sins for us on the Cross - from the dead, etc.). As long as they believe the important things, they're Christian. Sure they may misinterpret things, but doesn't everyone? Besides, not all Christians of their denomination (if they're a part of one) completely follow the beliefs and practices of that Christian denomination. Some Christians may say they're of a certain Christian denomination just because their family is a part of it. When there is a misunderstanding, it is then that we have the chance to help bring them to the accurate conclussion. We don't bash them with facts or anything like that. We just calmly, and respectfully express what we *know* to the other person so that they can get a proper understanding. Then they can teach other people who are mislead as well.
4) Never Completely Throw Down Anyone's Beliefs
You never want to copmletely throw down another's beliefs, whether Christian or not. When you do that, you won't be draw them closer to the right answer (or Christianity), but rather push them away from it. When we do that, people think that we don't respect their beliefs. And what will happen when we don't respect their beliefs? They decided not to respect our beliefs. The way you explain the truth to someone could be the 1 thing that could've gotten them into Heaven (or brought them to the right answer), but because you just threw their beliefs straight down to the ground, they ignored what you said. Again, we need to respectfully, and lovingly tell the other person what we *know.*
Ok...that's all...I hope I didn't get too confusing with what I said....
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Ok. This is a footote for those who do not understand the difference between persecution and rebuking/correcting.
Persecute (verb) - to cause to suffer because of beliefs
Rebuke (noun) - sharp, stern disapproval; reproof; reprmiand
Correct (verb)- To set or make true, accurate, or right; remove the errors from
Example of Persecution:
"Oh hey, I'm Catholic."
"(Ugh...a Catholic...I better stay away from this one) WHAT? YOU'RE CATHOLIC? REPENT OR GO TO HELL"
"Um.... sad "
2 days later
"Hey, I can I sit with you?"
"*whispers to friends* It's that Catholic person! *Moves away with friends and ignores Catholic*."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That can also be applied to homosexuals and other people with beliefs that don't agree with the Bible.
Example of Rebuke/Correction:
"So I believe the only way into Heaven in by works. I know it."
"No, no. According Ephesians 2:8-9, we have been saved by grace, through faith. No works can get us into Heaven.
"No, I'm quite sure I'm right. I've been taught this since I was a kid."
"Well this is what the Bible says. And if you are a Christian, you should believe God's Word rather than other's teachings. As they can disagree with the Bible.
"Ok...I'll take your word for it."
"No, take God's Word for it."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That was more an example of correction than rebuking. But you all still get the point. You are indeed told to rebuke.
Galations 6:9 - if someone is caught in a a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.
I find it interesting how once again we are told to do things gently.
Example: Someone is has committed adultery.
1) (bad respones) - "YOU STUPID, SINFUL, IDIOT! HOW DARE YOU SIN AND ACT SO....UGH!!! I DON'T THINK I EVEN WANT TO TALK TO YOU! THAT WAS A HORRIBLE THING!"
2) (good response) - "That wasn't a good thing you did. You know that it is sinful to commit adultery. You should ask the Lord for forgiveness. I'm here for you, and I'm praying for you. We'll overcome this together."
And if you're interested, Jesus' response (read John 8:1-11). Even more interesting, Jesus response was all the more gentle.
Sometimes a stern rebuke may be needed. But...
Proverbs 15:1 - A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger
Conclusively (for the foot note) persecution IS NOT AT ALL the same as rebuking/correcting. And we are told to rebuke and correct. But we musn't do it too harshly or anything or they'll ignore us and think Christians are stuck up people who only point out everyone's errors. I've rebuked people multiple times. I've embarrassed them on their facebook pages as I rebuked them with Bible verses and the truth. However, I did not get rude and hostile. I do it in a loving manner, not a disrespectful manner. Do not disrespect (not disagree with, disrespect) others beliefs, or they will disrespect the gospel. And it will be your fault, in the end, that someone goes to hell.
Ending comment, thank you Green_Fuu for telling me to put the difference between persecution and rebuking on here. If you had not, there would have been 90+% more misunderstandings about persecution vs rebuking which I would otherwise have to explain over, and over, and OVER again.
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:01 pm
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:57 pm
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:04 pm
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You should throw in the definition of the word persecute in there too.
persecute [ˈpɜːsɪˌkjuːt]
vb (tr)
1. to oppress, harass, or maltreat, esp because of race, religion, etc.
2. to bother persistently.
Saying you aren't Christian because you are a Catholic is not necessarily persecuting, It's more of a point of view.
You know, until it turns into blatant harassment and people start lighting their torches.
But yes I agree.
Persecution is horrible.
If we are part of one body, it doesn't make sense if we start eating each other off.
But Jesus himself said it, outside of that, we are to be persecuted if we are to proclaim his name.
Those who make it 'till the end really deserve the merit.
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:42 pm
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Green_Fuu You should throw in the definition of the word persecute in there too.
persecute [ˈpɜːsɪˌkjuːt]
vb (tr)
1. to oppress, harass, or maltreat, esp because of race, religion, etc.
2. to bother persistently.
Saying you aren't Christian because you are a Catholic is not necessarily persecuting, It's more of a point of view.
You know, until it turns into blatant harassment and people start lighting their torches.
But yes I agree.
Persecution is horrible.
If we are part of one body, it doesn't make sense if we start eating each other off.
But Jesus himself said it, outside of that, we are to be persecuted if we are to proclaim his name.
Those who make it 'till the end really deserve the merit.
Very valid point. Thank you very much for saying that because clearly there are some things I left vague. |
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:49 pm
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:54 pm
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:08 pm
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:41 pm
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Green_Fuu On_Fire_4_CHRIST Again, we need to respectfully, and lovingly tell the other person what we *know.* Even if people only did this, the world would be a better place* ^___^
*Intentional use of hyperbole.
I agree |
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:18 am
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:58 am
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On_Fire_4_CHRIST 1) Different Beliefs Are Inevitable No matter what, there are always going to be different beliefs. And this is not just in Christianity. It is in most of, if not all areas. You cannot avoid them. It's likely that you believe something that one of your friends thinks is incorrect. Are you going to persecute your friend because they belief something that you don't? Of course not! You are friends and you love and care for each other. Just like Christians *must* love and care for each other.
Of course they are inevitable, but they are also incredibly dangerous. For instance, most of the people who claim to be Christian will tell you that all you need to do to be saved is believe in Jesus and ask Him into your heart. Others will tell you that having been baptized as an infant is all you need. I'll tell you both that you're full of garbage. Only one of us can be right.
So yes, I am going to challenge my friends who teach the Sinner's Prayer or try to have infants baptized. I've done it before, and I'll do it again. I have a standing challenge with any of my friends that if they can show me one instance in the New Testament where somebody was converted by praying the Sinner's prayer, I'll do my best to track down everyone I've ever spoken with about religious matters and apologize to them. I haven't had to do that yet. Yes, they cry persecution and intolerance, but so what? If you study the scriptures, you'll find that the Lord is very intolerant of heresies and false religions. I'll love them while I do it, and one of the greatest acts of love I could show to anyone is to help guide them on a right path with God, and sometimes that hurts people's feelings. Sometimes they cry persecution. It's too bad, but Hell is forever and hurt feelings go away.
Quote: 2) Don't Say Someone Isn't a Christian Because They're Of A Different Denomination Recently I saw someone say that because someone was a Catholic, and I'm not pointing out any *user*names. Haha. See what I did there? I said "usernames" instead of..."names"...yeah, corny, anyway! There was a Christian who said that a Catholic person was not a Christian (and there was nothing the Catholic said that could give someone the right to say that). He said the Catholic person needed to repent. That didn't really doesn't make sense. Just because a person is a Catholic or Protestant or whatever doesn't mean they aren't Christian. It just means they have a certain set of beliefs. So, to make this known, they give their group a title. How would you feel is some random person said you weren't a Christian? You'd think (or say) "WHAT? What are you talking about?!? I KNOW I have followed the Biblical requirements to become a Christian and this person dares to say I'm not??? How dare they!!!" How do you think people of different Christian denominations feel when you say they aren't Christian just because they're of a different denomination. They won't always get mad. Sometimes they'll become sad and confused. But either way, the feeling won't be positive, I'm sure.
I've attended a few Catholic masses in my time, the most recent being sometime in December. I've studied their doctrines and their teachings. I've studied Mormon teachings. I've been to contemporary churches all over this country. There was even that one time at cowboy church. It's a hobby of mine. I won't say that there aren't genuinely saved people in all these churches, but I will say that they are few and far between, and they aren't saved because of the groups, they're saved in spite of them. Even in my own church, which matches up to the Word of God better than any I've ever been to previously (and that's been quite a few) has only so many people.
We have to teach them. We have to confront them and get them back with God. Yes, we have to do it out of love, and yes, it's generally preferred to do it gently. But you know what? Sometimes gentleness doesn't work. Just look at the Old Testament. God would try so hard to be the gentle voice in the wind, and after so long He would have to do something more like the earthquake and the raging fire.
Quote: 3) Focus On The Main Belief, Not The Others So many people think that just because people believe certain things or don't believe what they believe, they aren't Christian. However, what people really need to do is focus on the Christian beliefs (The Trinity, God raised Jesus - who took all our sins for us on the Cross - from the dead, etc.). As long as they believe the important things, they're Christian. Sure they may misinterpret things, but doesn't everyone? Besides, not all Christians of their denomination (if they're a part of one) completely follow the beliefs and practices of that Christian denomination. Some Christians may say they're of a certain Christian denomination just because their family is a part of it. When there is a misunderstanding, it is then that we have the chance to help bring them to the accurate conclussion. We don't bash them with facts or anything like that. We just calmly, and respectfully express what we *know* to the other person so that they can get a proper understanding. Then they can teach other people who are mislead as well.
All of the beliefs are important. God said everything He did for a reason, and we can't disregard any of it, or take any of it lightly. Even the smallest cross on a T is binding law.
Let's just make one example of why this is so important.
Jesus says "The Father and I are one."
Someone says, "Well, they're all separate."
Translation - "God lied, I know better."
Sure, some Christians don't follow all of what their denomination teaches. I don't, because I disagree with the elders over how the scripture in question is interpreted and understood. I respect them, but I do challenge their understanding of the passage and I have sat in the pews before church and taught against it. I don't always understand why He asks for what He does. If God asks for something and we aren't giving it to Him, we absolutely have to repent and give it to Him. Even if He was just asking for a little extra sugar in His coffee. There is no one part of the Scriptures that is any less important than the others.
Quote: 4) Never Completely Throw Down Anyone's Beliefs You never want to copmletely throw down another's beliefs, whether Christian or not. When you do that, you won't be draw them closer to the right answer (or Christianity), but rather push them away from it. When we do that, people think that we don't respect their beliefs. And what will happen when we don't respect their beliefs? They decided not to respect our beliefs. The way you explain the truth to someone could be the 1 thing that could've gotten them into Heaven (or brought them to the right answer), but because you just threw their beliefs straight down to the ground, they ignored what you said. Again, we need to respectfully, and lovingly tell the other person what we *know.*
If you are completely wrong, I will attack the whole of your beliefs. How many times have the prophets or the apostles done that exact same thing? Perhaps it would be wise for us to learn from them. I don't respect their beliefs. Why? Because if you don't have the Father, if you aren't buried in Christ, part of His Church, you will die, and you will spend eternity in Hell. Period. Even something as innocent as Buddhism leads to eternal death. It isn't a game. It's a very real life or death situation in which if you win, you get to spend eternity with the Lord and Maker of all that ever was, is, or will be. If you lose, you burn.
Yes, being nice and gentle has it's place. I'm not saying that it doesn't. Jesus used nice often. But He also made a whip and beat men in the temple until they fled. |
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:56 am
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@On_Fire
Thumbs up!
@VK
I'm sorry, but you need a serious attitude adjustment. Pointing out that someone is wrong and bringing them closer to God SHOULD NOT be an attack. It should NEVER be an attack! Jesus did not hold righteous anger and throw the gamblers and sinners out of the temple to teach them a lesso and that it was the best way it could be taught, he did it because they were defiling the temple of the Lord, something that could not be condoned.
Christ constantly showed kindness to others and also showed strictness when it was needed, however he always acted with an all consuming love and showed others the grace of God.
You seem to be completely missing the point of what On_Fire is saying, yet at the same time are agreeing with exactly what he says in your criticism.
Quote: Sure, some Christians don't follow all of what their denomination teaches. I don't, because I disagree with the elders over how the scripture in question is interpreted and understood. I respect them, but I do challenge their understanding of the passage and I have sat in the pews before church and taught against it.
THIS is what he is talking about. They have different interpretations, and by all means if you believe their interpretation is wrong then you should help guide them to a better understanding of His word, but simply because they disagree with you does not make them any less of a Christian. Do you believe in your own wisdom so much that it is impossible for your own understanding to be skewed? I certainly hope not, but it seems to me that's exactly what you are trying to say.
Of course every word within the Bible is important, but God also forgives all sins through Christs sacrifice including, and I might even say especially, when they are brought about by ignorance and lack of wisdom in man.
There is a difference between core beliefs, things of which there should be no question of interpretation and which those who might argue differently are truly ignorant or are willing skirting the words of the Bible to satisfy their own human feelings, and the little details where issues arise of Biblical translations or the meaning behind the Lords words in 'this' place or 'that' place.
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:18 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:22 pm
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:17 pm
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Quote: God would try so hard to be the gentle voice in the wind, and after so long He would have to do something more like the earthquake and the raging fire.
Actually this statement is invalid. He didn't "try to be" the gentle voice in the wind, He was, is and will continue to be the gentle voice in the wind.
I Kings 19:11-13 (NIV)
The LORD said, "Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by."
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave.
Then a voice said to him, "What are you doing here, Elijah?"
Notice how God was not in any of the intimidating, powerful things, but in the gentle whisper. God is omnipotent and He does rebuke people. But He does these things in a gentle and loving way. |
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