Capitalism

[ferret321]

Is capitalism fair or unfair in your opinion? Is free enterprise helpful or hurtful? Is freedom worth having?  

[Cornelius loh Quatious]

I am all for laissex-faire, or total capitalism. No government interference, just market economics. The problem, unfortunately, is the large corporations which arise and begin to dominate and monopoly the market, sometimes with unsavory business practices. While I know that eventually the corporation will fall or split up, it may take a great deal longer than other people are willing to wait.

That said, I think I like our current system, although it can certainly use improvements.  

[ferret321]

a free market means actually being free. big companies became so by starting out small. they became big because their idea was better than all others. that is ultimate freedom. i agree that government shouldn't interfere. it sucks that the government, media and poloticians attack them for living the american dream, but thats life in a broken society.  

[Trash Monroe Melany]

Im afraid to say that although the world needs some kind of control there seems to be far to much and people, as they always have done, rebel again it. That is where the most of the worlds problems lie.  

[Cornelius loh Quatious]

ferret321

a free market means actually being free. big companies became so by starting out small. they became big because their idea was better than all others. that is ultimate freedom. i agree that government shouldn't interfere. it sucks that the government, media and poloticians attack them for living the american dream, but thats life in a broken society.

Well, the problem arises when they get so large that they start overpowering everything else and start playing by different rules. I wouldn't say our society is "broken," but there's quite a bit wrong with it, especially considering the power weilded by multi-national corporations.

Yes, they started small, but they didn't just become big by being better than everyone else. There is a whole world of backdoor and under the counter politics that went into putting them where they are today. Backstabbings, forceful coercion, deals with organized crime syndicates; the lis goes on and on. And once they get to the top, most corporations stop caring about the quality of their product and start caring about the size of their profits. Out-sourcing to child-labor sweatshops in third-world countries, using cheap quality and potentially hazardous materials, skimping on research for product safety; all of these things reduce production cost at the risk of the consumer. Some Wal-mart don't hire any full-time workers, or hire illegal immigrants, neither of which cost them a dime in health coverage or benefits. Commercial farming packs animals into incredibly dangerous and unsanitary pens that spread disease and poison our environment with their waste.

Companies cut a lot of corners and do a lot of mean business to get to the top, and even more to stay there, forcing out the competition with hostile takeovers, corporate espionage, and even sabotage.

Don't be so naive as to think that these business people are "honest, hard-working Americans." The reason we have so many politicians (but not so many as you'd think, since most of them recieve kickbacks and bribes from these companies to let them get away with most of their practices) and journalists going after them is because people know, and have known for years now, the dirty work that's done behind the scenes for these giant corporations. The worst part is that it's STILL HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. People do what they can to bring down criminals, but when they have legions of corporate lawyers and corrupt judges and politicians to tie up the legislation in red tape, it's impossible to stop them for very long.  

[sin_reincarnated]

well i like seeing the frist word of a sentence capitalized...... blaugh  

[Cornelius loh Quatious]

Sin, I was this close to deleting your post... until I got the pun. rolleyes  

[ferret321]

dboyzero

ferret321

a free market means actually being free. big companies became so by starting out small. they became big because their idea was better than all others. that is ultimate freedom. i agree that government shouldn't interfere. it sucks that the government, media and poloticians attack them for living the american dream, but thats life in a broken society.

Well, the problem arises when they get so large that they start overpowering everything else and start playing by different rules. I wouldn't say our society is "broken," but there's quite a bit wrong with it, especially considering the power weilded by multi-national corporations.

Yes, they started small, but they didn't just become big by being better than everyone else. There is a whole world of backdoor and under the counter politics that went into putting them where they are today. Backstabbings, forceful coercion, deals with organized crime syndicates; the lis goes on and on. And once they get to the top, most corporations stop caring about the quality of their product and start caring about the size of their profits. Out-sourcing to child-labor sweatshops in third-world countries, using cheap quality and potentially hazardous materials, skimping on research for product safety; all of these things reduce production cost at the risk of the consumer. Some Wal-mart don't hire any full-time workers, or hire illegal immigrants, neither of which cost them a dime in health coverage or benefits. Commercial farming packs animals into incredibly dangerous and unsanitary pens that spread disease and poison our environment with their waste.

Companies cut a lot of corners and do a lot of mean business to get to the top, and even more to stay there, forcing out the competition with hostile takeovers, corporate espionage, and even sabotage.

Don't be so naive as to think that these business people are "honest, hard-working Americans." The reason we have so many politicians (but not so many as you'd think, since most of them recieve kickbacks and bribes from these companies to let them get away with most of their practices) and journalists going after them is because people know, and have known for years now, the dirty work that's done behind the scenes for these giant corporations. The worst part is that it's STILL HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. People do what they can to bring down criminals, but when they have legions of corporate lawyers and corrupt judges and politicians to tie up the legislation in red tape, it's impossible to stop them for very long.

You raise a good point. But the media is also a big corporration, and they do the most backstabbing of all. Attacking poloticians, corporrations and only reporting negatives. You're right, companies care most about making money, thats why they started a company. But the media trys to keep them from making money with attacks because they make money with viewers, and viewers like drama. But companies don't always use dirty tactics to get ahead. Granted, Enron, MCI and a couple of others were stupid and embezzeled money, and that was because they were power hungry. But people like Microsoft, GE, Verizon and Google and some oil companies get ahead with talent. Media bias likes to say otherwise because they don't belive in captalism and think they should go out of business to give others a chance. If big companies go out of business, millions go unemployed. Read "Atlas Shrugged", it might help.  

[Cornelius loh Quatious]

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that media corporations don't believe in capitalism. Like you said, they are also money making conglomerates that use their power to spread their own opinions in lieu of facts (look at Rupert Murdock). Because of this, I'm gonna say that they readily believe in the capitalist system, and attack companies and politicians more for the ratings than for any idealistic quest.

Also, don't be too sure about any company; just because we don't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. From what I've heard, more than half of the software Bill Gates used to start Microsoft was stolen from various sources. Pretty much every company has dirt on them somewhere, just like just about every person does. Granted, we shouldn't use past mistakes to judge a person or a company, but these things do speak for the merit of the being in question.

Read the "Communist Manifesto," it might help. wink  

[ferret321]

I might not agree with all of your ideas, and you don't agree with mine, but it's refreshing to see someone who can have an intellegent discussion without getting mean and nasty about it. One doesn't see that a lot in todays society. May I add you to my friendslist just because you know how to have an intellegent discussion and still be gracious about it?  

[Cornelius loh Quatious]

Sure, I don't really care about who I add to my friendslist, it's too big already.

In any case, the point of this subforum is to help facilitate intelligent discussion without bringing in ego and attitude, and I'm doing my best to make sure it stays that way. I appreciate the compliment.  

[Crunchy)(Princess]

dboyzero

Sure, I don't really care about who I add to my friendslist, it's too big already.

In any case, the point of this subforum is to help facilitate intelligent discussion without bringing in ego and attitude, and I'm doing my best to make sure it stays that way. I appreciate the compliment.

Dboy, you're awesome. I read through your statements and this was my face:
heart . heart

In any event, I'd like to remind ferret that media live off of commercials, which come from businesses. The media could not exist without commercialism. In fact, my aunt worked for the New Yorker, and she said that a lot of reporters were paid by certain companies to paint a favorable picture. And, of course, if the government *really* doens't like a media source they can put it under investigation.
This can utterly bankrupt most media-companies if they're not getting major support from corporations (which, needless to say, are not going to give them money if they talk about serious flaws in their business or affiliate businesses), and so they can be destroyed without hurting their image.

Bravo to both of you for the discussion!  

[Mara EZK]

sin_reincarnated

well i like seeing the frist word of a sentence capitalized...... blaugh

And then there's the irony that the first letter is not capitalized in your sentence...  

[ferret321]

Crunchy)(Princess

dboyzero

Sure, I don't really care about who I add to my friendslist, it's too big already.

In any case, the point of this subforum is to help facilitate intelligent discussion without bringing in ego and attitude, and I'm doing my best to make sure it stays that way. I appreciate the compliment.

Dboy, you're awesome. I read through your statements and this was my face:
heart . heart

In any event, I'd like to remind ferret that media live off of commercials, which come from businesses. The media could not exist without commercialism. In fact, my aunt worked for the New Yorker, and she said that a lot of reporters were paid by certain companies to paint a favorable picture. And, of course, if the government *really* doens't like a media source they can put it under investigation.
This can utterly bankrupt most media-companies if they're not getting major support from corporations (which, needless to say, are not going to give them money if they talk about serious flaws in their business or affiliate businesses), and so they can be destroyed without hurting their image.

Bravo to both of you for the discussion!

Thank you very much. Same to you.  

[Takahashi_Natsumi]

Capitalism is fair in the hands of honest people; unfortunately, not all capitalists are honest.