Would you break your honor if it suited your needs?

[Ultra Kikio]

well maybe sometimes to keep things in order you might have to break your honor no matter how much it hurts or who's heart your breaking sometime you just have say talk to the hand DUDE talk2hand even if your breaking your honor I mean what if someone breaks your heart then I would proably dis my so called honor and get them back ninja it gets me dignty whitch ROCKS mrgreen PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THISOR I'LL BREAK MY HONOR ON YOU xd twisted  

[Sanzoskitsune]

Uh... Ultra I'm slightly confused here. So you would break your honor if someone broke your heart or something of the like, is that what I'm getting? And if it hurts you to break your honor, as your first sentence implies, why would you do it? I'm just a little lost here. And you don't need to threaten people to get them to read your post either.  

[Marcel Antoine Enjolras]

I must say: it would basically screw me up in the extreme to do this. I'd become blubbering and very guilty and would never be able to have a discussion with another person again, knowing I could never mention virtue, selflessness, human rights, etc because I had taken a bribe and put money above virtue.

However, virtue does not always agree with current laws. I would be screwed during the 1940s and 50s. I'd be even more screwed during the Thermidorian Reaction and Directory.

However, there are ideas that people in many diverse cultures have, time and time again, found more important than greed, self-pursuit. One of these ideas is called various things, but can be simply termed empathy, which is itself a self-driven desire to not see a fellow human being in pain. Another is liberty - as political theorist after political theorist will show - and how best to maintain personal liberty (in many cases, the best theorized way is to have there be a safety net, that way no matter where in society one happens to be born, one will have a fair chance). Though these can be argued to be driven by selfishness, they are still definite ideals and very real calls to our better instincts.

Just look to religion, morality, law, children's books, or wherever you get your idea of honor, virtue, etc from, and you will see, written across most of the lasting ones, and I'm referencing the bible here because it's the best translation I have memorized at present: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Because of its prevalence across independently-raised cultures; because of the number of people who were willing to sacrifice their lives, freedom, money, etc for the belief that humanity can make a less greed-driven world; because of our capacity human empathy and outrage when this is not demonstrated; because people have been known to rush into burning buildings to save a person they have never met before, or to put themselves into great peril to save another's life; maybe because Progress can only happen if one is acting despite greed and corruption; maybe even out of a cry of "where would we be then?"; believe in the goodness of humankind, not instead of the greediness, but believe that it is in greater amounts and of more outstanding quality and honor than the mediocrity of bribes and avarice. It is a better joy by far to allow oneself to live with honor and virtue than to live with the guilt of having betrayed one's fellow human or the cold feeling of hard empty cash.

Therefore, even selfishly, instead of living for what is trivial or whose joy will fade too quickly to be worth very much, live for the best, longest-lasting feeling of feeling good about yourself.

So, regardless of whether people do it out of personal interests or because they believe stronger in some ideal greater than themselves that they cannot bear to see fail, people will usually try to live by their own code of honor and virtue.  

[Omochii]

Sanzoskitsune

you don't need to threaten people to get them to read your post either.

And, by threatening people at the end of your post, chances are, if they read your threat, they would have already read your post, ne? biggrin

I'm much to the opinion that we all have potential to be good and bad, and that as a matter of fact, we're not primarily anything. I like to think of it as though we're all born as boxes or something - each box looking slightly different to another; no box being completely identical - but in the end, it's what you fill your box with that matters. As Large Inmate said, I think it's very much in your upbringing. :3

Quote:

Also my examples implied more realistic scenario's like taking something form a store when no one is looking, having an affair, plagiarizing to get ahead in your job

I think that if nobody was looking, and you knew, for sure, that nobody was looking (so there's no chance of a camera, or anything) then it would be very easy to take something that isn't yours to take. I'd say that was more temptation, than a matter of 'honour'.

As for having an affair, what if you were to accidentally fall in love with somebody else while you were still in love with your significant other? Even if you did not act upon this new found love (so, technically, it does not constitute as having an affair), letting your significant other know would probably hurt them just as much, which means that in my book, it's the same thing.

As for plagerising to get ahead in a job...as a personal feeling, I would not plagerise, not because of guilt, but because of pride: I like to know that what I've earned is mine, and mine alone. Because I'm just so great and all. 8D

When I think about it, when deciding what to do in the face of 'moral issues', I don't think about what is right or wrong, or if my 'honour' will uphold itself: I think about what it is that I want and the consequences of my actions (if it's going to cause me hassle in the future, why would I do it? I want to be happy after all, so if I'm going to be found out, then there's no reason for me to do it).

Basically:

I don't want to steal, rape, murder, plagerise, or anything of that sort, but not because when I consider the idea, I think to myself, "I can't do that because it'd be immoral and against my 'honour'", but rather, because I have no inclination to.

Now, does that make me a bad person? 8D

...And that, is a completely different discussion topic altogether. biggrin  

[Karma Explosion]

I would like to say I would never break my honor. But really? In the end all of us are looking out for ourselves first. And I'm sure as much as you talk, there's been at least one time in your life when you've done something not completely honest.

What if you gave your honor to someone that you would do something for them, but in the end it's not good thing to do? What if you gave your word that you would do something, but to do it you must sacrifice greatly? What if you gave a snap decision promise that you wanted to take back later? What if to keep your promise, you must hurt someone else? What if to keep one promise you must break another?

What I'm trying to prove is that there are times when even the best person will go against their better nature,because like I said, we're looking out for number 1 first.  

[takara kagami]

Personally my honor and dignity are very high on priority list. In the past I did not quite comprehend how important they were. Thus resulting in the loss of dignity in desperate attempts to be accepted into more mainstream associations. However no matter how far I would stoop to achieve my goals, they would never come to be. Punishment for betraying friends, and lying to those who care. Do not get me wrong I had my boundaries, however if it meant I could have that illusion of popularity, I would ditch those who stood by me, and lie to sneak off and hang with certain individuals.

However a few years later, and a few hard lessons learned, I know realize how important being a good person is. Fortunately most of my mistakes have been erased in time, however many will always remain, smoldering brightly in the shadows. Impossible to forget. Though the violations of dignity were minor, they still were not a wise decisions. Though part of life is learning from your mistakes, and growing as a person from them.

Today if I was faced with the decision to achieve my deepest desires, by performing some horrid act; I would not be able to bring myself to go through with them. I have realized that when you resort to darkened ways to achieve your goals, you will never be satisfied, nor happy in the end. I would rather work hard following the law, my religion, and in general being a good hard working person, then lower myself to evil deeds. Sure I may go to bed tired from a long day of work, but at least I would not have the guilt on my conscience from ruining the life of another for a more cushy social standing, or promotion. Some may not understand my motives.

Humans are not perfect, we all make mistakes. The difference in individuals is that some choose to learn from them, and better their lives, where others decide to stay down and destroy themselves.  

[Milk and Holy Water]

Attempts to quantify dignity or honor are ridiculous, as they exist entirely in one's mind.

I would think that a man who never breaks his "honor" is someone who is dogmatic to the core, leaving no room for growth. A man like that would become a slave to some arbitrary code of ethics that may be entirely unsuited for his environment. Worse yet, our own natures elude us so terribly, that dogmatically following a code of honor, dignity, or whatever you want to call it, can lead to some pretty terrible conflicts within ourselves, causing so much grief and terrible regret and self-oppression when we fail to live up to our unrealistic expectations and ideals.  

[RedJoker25]

I would have to say that I care too much about my social image to ever do anything against my morals. I take pride in my honor and would never lower my standards for trivial matters. If it's a big deal, then I usually won't have to.

For instance, even though I personally feel it's wrong to kill, I also feel that the world is overpopulated, and therefore murder/war is essential to life. I just won't ever be doing the killing. In other words, I won't stray from my own morals just to get what I want. I don't have to. Until/Unless the world finally reaches a Utopian state, people will always do exactly what I feel is right.  

[Cevadeva]

For me, I would have to be desperate, on the streets, no other option situation for me to give up my honor/values. If you see my sig, then you'll know that betraying someone is the last thing on my mind. I would be a hypocrite and basically a b*tch if I did betray someone. I would give up my pride if it were for my friends or family, but if it doesn't involve either of the two, then I'm gonna work my a$$ off.

Even if I did break one of my morals/values, I wouldn't be able to live with myself. So I don't see the point in doing so, for amything.  

[Yeonie]

The "right" answer to this question would be,
"Through everything, in the end, honour's all you've got left,
so you have to do your best to keep it untainted."

Of course, it's not the "human" answer.
Humans... It's in our instinct, it's in our primal nature to betray, and turn our backs on whatever, and whomever,
if the temptations were great enough.
I'm sure everyone's done it at least once in their lives,
it's only normal.
The most anyone can do is just try NOT to.