TGSCOM wins NFA battle, full auto no longer needs permit

[AlcoholicPancake]

Sebi-Chan

AlcoholicPancake

Sebi-Chan

.... and No Lazy I don't think I will Try Guns ... I live in a part of the world, where Killing things for fun is NOT Okay .....
I know its a joke.... and if you don't know about the War .... your more of a moron then I thought ...

Ummm, no matter where you are in the world, Hunting is always recognized as a form of sport... So that's not accurate >_>

Pancake... We can shot things here but only in the country ... AND ... its still frowned apon

Me, competitive shooting, hunting, whatever. Guns are used in sporting events world wide, and will always be around. Best you can do if you don't like them is just keep away from them pretty much. There will always be enthusiasts around.  

[lazycommie]

Sebi:

Yes, I am a gun nut. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. Actually, those who privately collect and shoot firearms, especially military ones, tend to be LESS likely to go killing people. You can't argue that gun control helps anything, or that firearms ownership is a bad thing, as we've seen in Germany(and the US, and India) recently that gun control only serves to make people easy targets. I didn't bother addressing that in my post because it was a given. If you want to argue gun law with me, please take it to another thread(or make a thread, or ask and I'll make one).


What "enlightened" part of the world is that? Allow me to mark it on my "places unfriendly to me" map, so I know to avoid ever going there.


I haven't had a chance to hunt anything aside from a few squirrels. This deer season, I'll finally have a good gun I can legally hunt with, as my SKS isn't legal for hunting here(the mag capacity is more than allowed). Normally I just shoot paper targets at the range. On the off chance I hunt squirrel, I use an airgun so as to not blow the thing up, as all my rifles are way "too much gun" for the task.

There is no part of the world where hunting isn't practiced, except for a handful of major cities, which are so far removed from sense that they could be considered another world unto themselves.


"The war"? Which war? There's one in Afghanistan and one in Iraq. There used to be one in Georgia. None of them are world-changing events, none of them affect nations outside of those involved in the war, none of them mean "death to all" or even friggin close.


If you're going to come in my thread and threadshit, please do it with some taste and style. It makes it a much more enjoyable experience for all involved, as well as having people be a lot more receptive to your ideas.


You should consider trying it, though, as shooting is a fun hobby that is probably the safest(in terms of injuries resulting from the sport, or related to it) of any sport, team or solo.  

[AlcoholicPancake]

lazycommie

Actually, those who privately collect and shoot firearms, especially military ones, tend to be LESS likely to go killing people.

Very true. Because people who understand how dangerous they can be, or have had any experience or training with a gun know what they're capable of doing understand what those guns can do to people and will ( more than likely ) be less inclined to go out and use them on people.

I don't think the US needs firearm CONTROL. Just EDUCATION about the firearms. Anyone properly educated about them would think twice before going off and using them on another human being. CCW classes, though around for Gun Control, DO properly educate people on the safe and proper use of concealable firearms, and hunter's safety courses that younger hunters need to take educate them on the safe use and proper handling of rifles.

Like I said before though... Education is needed, not control.  

[lazycommie]

AlcoholicPancake

lazycommie

Actually, those who privately collect and shoot firearms, especially military ones, tend to be LESS likely to go killing people.

Very true. Because people who understand how dangerous they can be, or have had any experience or training with a gun know what they're capable of doing understand what those guns can do to people and will ( more than likely ) be less inclined to go out and use them on people.

I don't think the US needs firearm CONTROL. Just EDUCATION about the firearms. Anyone properly educated about them would think twice before going off and using them on another human being. CCW classes, though around for Gun Control, DO properly educate people on the safe and proper use of concealable firearms, and hunter's safety courses that younger hunters need to take educate them on the safe use and proper handling of rifles.

Like I said before though... Education is needed, not control.

Agreed. As I've said in other threads, it should be part of schooling in general, because it's a good way to build responsibility in general.  

[Sanzoskitsune]

AlcoholicPancake

lazycommie

Actually, those who privately collect and shoot firearms, especially military ones, tend to be LESS likely to go killing people.

Very true. Because people who understand how dangerous they can be, or have had any experience or training with a gun know what they're capable of doing understand what those guns can do to people and will ( more than likely ) be less inclined to go out and use them on people.

I don't think the US needs firearm CONTROL. Just EDUCATION about the firearms. Anyone properly educated about them would think twice before going off and using them on another human being. CCW classes, though around for Gun Control, DO properly educate people on the safe and proper use of concealable firearms, and hunter's safety courses that younger hunters need to take educate them on the safe use and proper handling of rifles.

Like I said before though... Education is needed, not control.

You make a good argument there Pancake, sadly I don't think we live in a society that is going to spend money on that kind of thing. I honestly believe this society would be a lot better with a little more education being presented to people but it's usually the first thing to take budget cuts. That brings me into an entirely different rant... but my point is there is a certain stigma when it comes to guns (which I admit to having) because most of the people who use them AREN'T educated about them and just shoot willy nilly... or at least that's the case where I grew up.  

[AlcoholicPancake]

Sanzoskitsune

AlcoholicPancake

lazycommie

Actually, those who privately collect and shoot firearms, especially military ones, tend to be LESS likely to go killing people.

Very true. Because people who understand how dangerous they can be, or have had any experience or training with a gun know what they're capable of doing understand what those guns can do to people and will ( more than likely ) be less inclined to go out and use them on people.

I don't think the US needs firearm CONTROL. Just EDUCATION about the firearms. Anyone properly educated about them would think twice before going off and using them on another human being. CCW classes, though around for Gun Control, DO properly educate people on the safe and proper use of concealable firearms, and hunter's safety courses that younger hunters need to take educate them on the safe use and proper handling of rifles.

Like I said before though... Education is needed, not control.

You make a good argument there Pancake, sadly I don't think we live in a society that is going to spend money on that kind of thing. I honestly believe this society would be a lot better with a little more education being presented to people but it's usually the first thing to take budget cuts. That brings me into an entirely different rant... but my point is there is a certain stigma when it comes to guns (which I admit to having) because most of the people who use them AREN'T educated about them and just shoot willy nilly... or at least that's the case where I grew up.

I understand what you mean. It is a shame that education is always the first thing to take cuts, when it's really the only thing we need in this world, but alas, the general populace is usually too stupid to see the most obvious of solutions. I understand the stigma people have about them too. Yes, they CAN be dangerous, and in the hands of many people in the world, they ARE dangerous. It's a shame, but understandable why people don't like them too much, and usually hold gun enthusiast in a low regard. I also understand about the growing up in an area with people uneducated about them. Whereas the city I grew up in didn't have it TOO bad, I'm within a three hour drive from THREE cities that are on the list of the top 10 most dangerous cities in the US, and because of the friends and company I used to be around, seen those areas ( generally the worst parts of those areas too ) quite a bit. I'd be willing to bet money though, that with proper firearm education, that many of those places wouldn't be NEARLY as bad as they are now.

Oh well, maybe one day people will see that the most important thing they can do with these subjects is to educate the populace, rather than try to enforce with an almost dictator like ruling over the subjects..  

[lazycommie]

Sanzoskitsune

AlcoholicPancake

lazycommie

Actually, those who privately collect and shoot firearms, especially military ones, tend to be LESS likely to go killing people.

Very true. Because people who understand how dangerous they can be, or have had any experience or training with a gun know what they're capable of doing understand what those guns can do to people and will ( more than likely ) be less inclined to go out and use them on people.

I don't think the US needs firearm CONTROL. Just EDUCATION about the firearms. Anyone properly educated about them would think twice before going off and using them on another human being. CCW classes, though around for Gun Control, DO properly educate people on the safe and proper use of concealable firearms, and hunter's safety courses that younger hunters need to take educate them on the safe use and proper handling of rifles.

Like I said before though... Education is needed, not control.

You make a good argument there Pancake, sadly I don't think we live in a society that is going to spend money on that kind of thing. I honestly believe this society would be a lot better with a little more education being presented to people but it's usually the first thing to take budget cuts. That brings me into an entirely different rant... but my point is there is a certain stigma when it comes to guns (which I admit to having) because most of the people who use them AREN'T educated about them and just shoot willy nilly... or at least that's the case where I grew up.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with Sanzo. There is a stigma applied to guns that stems from ignorance(it just so happens that said ignorance is encouraged by TV and schools).

The best way I've found of breaking that stigma is to take a person out shooting and teach them how to do it safely.  

[Saverio C.]

Sebi-Chan

.... and No Lazy I don't think I will Try Guns ... I live in a part of the world, where Killing things for fun is NOT Okay .....
I know its a joke.... and if you don't know about the War .... your more of a moron then I thought ...

I hope your Unicorns protect you from criminals and the like. Well you do live down under, right? I guess totalitarian governments don't like armed civilians anyway.

Guns are in no way shape or form the problom in violent situations, the problom is that the person is violent. Guns are not dangers with the smallest bit of education, hell they are safer then knives in most cases.  

[Sanzoskitsune]

@Pancake actually its a pretty good indicator of the over-all budget for education in an area. If the area is more likely to have people misusing firearms and the like, the more likely that they have very little funding for educational purposes. As for the second part, we unfortunately live in a society in which a good percentage of it spends its time trying to force everyone to think like they do and act like they do... Actually that's most of the world come to think of it.

@Lazy right cause me being a crazy liberal its amazing that I could possibly come up with an idea you could agree with.  

[lazycommie]

Sanzoskitsune

@Pancake actually its a pretty good indicator of the over-all budget for education in an area. If the area is more likely to have people misusing firearms and the like, the more likely that they have very little funding for educational purposes. As for the second part, we unfortunately live in a society in which a good percentage of it spends its time trying to force everyone to think like they do and act like they do... Actually that's most of the world come to think of it.

@Lazy right cause me being a crazy liberal its amazing that I could possibly come up with an idea you could agree with.

That and You and I tend to disagree on damn near everything.  

[Sanzoskitsune]

actually no, I disagree with you on certain political things doesn't mean we're going to disagree on every damn thing in the universe.  

[Sentama Lin]

Guns... I've never seen a need for one in my life. Then again, considering that a) should I want a weapon I'd prefer weapons that are versatile, utilitarian, easily-concealed, inconspicuous, and as non-fatal as possible; b) I firmly believe that "to delight in weapons is to delight in the killing of man" ; and c) the things that I treasure the most can never ever be taken from me, it's easy to see why I find no reason for me to ever own a gun.

That said, I don't have an opinion whether guns should be controlled or not. I'd like people to be educated and I'd like education to be plentiful, with people that are certified to teach, but I have no opinion on control. People are going to get them anyways if they want them. Secretly, however, I wish people didn't feel it necessary to get guns. Why people want them I don't know why, but I'm privileged to live in an area where I don't feel threatened.

Nota Bene: Another reason that I don't really find a need for weapons: should push come to shove I have enough experience to defend myself in hand to hand, and I have training in using short sticks (essentially anything that's 12-inches or shorter that is rod-like) as weapons. Even with that though, I've never had to use it. Again, everything that I hold dear cannot be taken from me. Should I be mugged or otherwise for possession of my material things, I'd just give it to them. It's not worth the struggle, for one, and if people really feel the need to steal from me, the must be in much worse sh*t than I am.  

[Sanzoskitsune]

I'm not a fan of guns either Lin but I'm a fan of getting people educated on as much as possible. I'd much prefer if guns didn't exist in the first place but since that is never going to happen, education seems like a nice second.  

[lazycommie]

Sentama Lin

Guns... I've never seen a need for one in my life. Then again, considering that a) should I want a weapon I'd prefer weapons that are versatile, utilitarian, easily-concealed, inconspicuous, and as non-fatal as possible; b) I firmly believe that "to delight in weapons is to delight in the killing of man" ; and c) the things that I treasure the most can never ever be taken from me, it's easy to see why I find no reason for me to ever own a gun.

That said, I don't have an opinion whether guns should be controlled or not. I'd like people to be educated and I'd like education to be plentiful, with people that are certified to teach, but I have no opinion on control. People are going to get them anyways if they want them. Secretly, however, I wish people didn't feel it necessary to get guns. Why people want them I don't know why, but I'm privileged to live in an area where I don't feel threatened.

Nota Bene: Another reason that I don't really find a need for weapons: should push come to shove I have enough experience to defend myself in hand to hand, and I have training in using short sticks (essentially anything that's 12-inches or shorter that is rod-like) as weapons. Even with that though, I've never had to use it. Again, everything that I hold dear cannot be taken from me. Should I be mugged or otherwise for possession of my material things, I'd just give it to them. It's not worth the struggle, for one, and if people really feel the need to steal from me, the must be in much worse sh*t than I am.

While you may be physically capable of taking out a person hand-to-hand(and even then, good knife used right or firearm beats bare hand every time), not everyone is. The elderly and crippled, for example, don't have the physical capability to be able to defend themselves effectively. That is why Sam Colt's gun was commonly called the "equalizer". It allowed a weak man to be just as effective as a strong man.

With the exception of "non-fatal as possible", your description of what you'd want in a weapon fits a firearm perfectly. They're useful for entertainment, defense, obtaining food and pest control, a compact handgun is very easily concealed and isn't likely to be noticed unless you wave it around and use it improperly. Also, in the eyes of the law, using any kind of LTL(less than lethal) weapon against someone can screw you over a hell of a lot more than shooting them and being done with it. I don't like how that goes, but it's how things go iin court, so it's how it goes.

In response to b, I have to disagree based on the firearm being a tool and nothing more. Your mind is the weapon, you simply manipulate the tools around you to use them. It wouldn't take much more effort to stick someone with a knife than it would to shoot them or club them in the head with a golf trophy. All tools have intended purposes, and all tools can be misused.

I don't believe in forcing a person to own firearms, and consider such laws just as pointless as gun regulations. I wouldn't force you to own a gun, but I don't see the point of anyone trying to disarm me, as they would die.