Early US history...Columbus is a liar?

[God-Raped-Me]

Oh no, sorry, I was trying to point out that not all cultures will destroy what they don't understand. The natives didn't understand the new comers and wanted to learn from them not wipe them off the face of the planet.  

[Shram]

God-Raped-Me

Oh no, sorry, I was trying to point out that not all cultures will destroy what they don't understand. The natives didn't understand the new comers and wanted to learn from them not wipe them off the face of the planet.

They had no reason to doubt or fear other cultures from the cultures they had seen...
to my knowledge it was important to speak to the leader before any decisions were made for them, but they met people who could tell their "leaders" a lie and get away with it.
one side learned to keep curiosity over fear to learn best method of self preservation.
the other learned to fear, subdue and then be curious about for the benefit of self preservation.  

[God-Raped-Me]

It's too bad that the new peoples felt the need to kill and pillage. I'm so fascinated by older cultures, and there's so little left of the ones that were on this land.

Also to the O.P If you want to learn about more lies from the text book, look up what times were ACTUALLY like during the enslavement of the blacks and who the first black slaves were, also look up how many Jews actually died in the holocaust.

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!  

[Shram]

I am an old ATG member =]

But they told me the holocaust never happened emo

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[God-Raped-Me]

Really? Not our system. They made it out to be this big horrible event where millions and millions of Jews died. They were almost wiped out is what we were told.

Lucky Shram getting the truth!  

[The Dinosaur Next Door]

So, Columbus was likely the first person with funding from the government to stumble upon our beaches, but we can agree that he wasn't the first European to chill with the Natives. I think it's funny that some people still call Native Americans "Indians," or feel the need to call Indians "East-Indian," like they've got anything to do with each other.

Also, this whole thing just makes me think of Roanoke Island... did anyone ever figure out what happened?  

[Shram]

I am an old ATG member =]

you... did realise I wasn't serious right?


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[God-Raped-Me]

Shram

I am an old ATG member =]

you... did realise I wasn't serious right?


Click here to PM Me regarding ATG.
Captain Shram has answered your thread

Nope, here I was thinking you actually got the truth. GTR and I have watched documentaries where even the Jews admitted that it wasn't as bad as the books said it was. They said that it's more like a few thousand people died in there, mostly from poor living conditions because all the efforts were going to the war. I wish I could remember the name of it.  

[Shram]

I am an old ATG member =]

things are always shown as worse then it is after war...
then they dull it down so it seems not as bad as it was as people find the truth.

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[Kaz Likes Cookies]

I wanna look more into Roanoke. It was mentioned in my textbook too about the "Croanoke" sign.

God-Raped-Me

It's too bad that the new peoples felt the need to kill and pillage. I'm so fascinated by older cultures, and there's so little left of the ones that were on this land.

Also to the O.P If you want to learn about more lies from the text book, look up what times were ACTUALLY like during the enslavement of the blacks and who the first black slaves were, also look up how many Jews actually died in the holocaust.

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!

Yeah, I'll def look that up. It's really interesting how so many textbooks have it wrong!! What do we believe now that all of our sources may be incorrect?  

[Shram]

Cadhla

I wanna look more into Roanoke. It was mentioned in my textbook too about the "Croanoke" sign.

God-Raped-Me

It's too bad that the new peoples felt the need to kill and pillage. I'm so fascinated by older cultures, and there's so little left of the ones that were on this land.

Also to the O.P If you want to learn about more lies from the text book, look up what times were ACTUALLY like during the enslavement of the blacks and who the first black slaves were, also look up how many Jews actually died in the holocaust.

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!

Yeah, I'll def look that up. It's really interesting how so many textbooks have it wrong!! What do we believe now that all of our sources may be incorrect?

we believe in ourselves.
in our need to ensure we don't ******** up as bad again  

[Chexley]

Just to humor myself I'm going to type out what my dictionary says about Columbus Day:

The second Monday in October, a U.S. holiday marking the discovery of America by Christopher Columbus in 1492, formerly celebrated October 12.

I had thrown out my old history book. I could have looked this chapter up in the book. *Is mad at herself.*  

[Saverio C.]

Sanzoskitsune

Actually, I've always been irritated by how Europeans killed off all the Native Americans, there were so many AMAZING cultures here. At least there was a little meshing of culture.

Are you also mad that the Aztecs and Incans were more evil then the Spanish in both brutality. Or how about the fact that the Aztecs were destroyed by the people hey invaded and took over?

Or how about the Natives wanting to use European guns and steel to control the tribes in North America. No one wanted to mesh one way or the other. At least not peacefully. Stop blaming the Europeans for winning a fight that everyone wanted.  

[~DR.MOOFASA~]

yeahhhh.... you'd be amazed how many lies were told in history books. stare

i once had a history teacher tell us in class that history writing is the product of those who write it. MEANING that what people read about in books and doccumentation, etc... it's all based on how the writer perceives it.

for example... in southern africa early in colonization, it was written that the Mfecane was "black on black" violence, and that the white settlers had nothing to do with it. confused ridiculous. some may have perceived it that way, and some maybe did have nothing to do with it. but there was a lot of fighting from every group in the area, and shaka-khan wasn't the only terrorizer. PLUS... it's possible that history on the Mfecane was written like that to make the settlers look good back home, to keep getting approval for why they were over there.

...hmm, yeah that whole example could have easily gone over people's heads, since not many know lots about african history... sweatdrop

BUT! bear in mind when you read things about history that there always many sides to a story. it's all about perspective. 3nodding there were definately cultures formed on various continents all over the planet before they were "discovered" ... and when history books say these lands were "discovered" it could just have been a new discovery to the culture living outside of the land. ^^

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!
.... xD (sorry GRM, had to after you did)  

[Omnileech]

Quote:

Why do they say in schools that Columbus "discovered" America and that no one knew it existed before him?

What do you think of the diseases Europeans brought and the military technology that wiped out almost 90% of all the millions of natives that once walked this earth?

Because the Western Europeans and Americans who had been writing history for the past hundreds of years liked to think that what Colombus ran into was devoid of life. It makes sense when you take into consideration that there was a serious debate over whether native americans even had souls. Historians in the past have been the enforcers of racism and writing down that natives were discovered was just another slap in the face.

In reality, and it should be plenty obvious too, that the Natives discovered America first and the Vikings may have landed on North America, but contact was in-substantive since they didn't try to colonize the danged place.

Europeans were filthy. Imagine hundreds of thousands of people living in cities with no plumbing, no public facilities for sanitization, little knowledge of medicine, little knowledge of hygiene, and since the climate isn't forgiving up in Europe there's a reason why they didn't take baths as frequently as other parts of the world. Living in cramped quarters, carrying disease-ridden rodents with them, the Europeans were a breeding ground for all sorts of diseases whom the natives had no resistance to. It's not the Europeans fault that they carried the diseases but the knowledge that simply being near natives was fatal gave birth to some awful ideas like the notion that God was killing the natives to make way for the colonials.

Thaliat Everwood

Seriously, how could he confuse a native from here for one from Asia? Height alone should have clued him in he made a wrong turn somewhere. And the different food. And the native's different complexions. And the lack of noodle goodness. How do you mistake this place for Asia? Sheesh.

It's easy when what you have to go on are highly inaccute texts. It's not like Columbus had ever been anywhere near Asia.

Shram

They had no reason to doubt or fear other cultures from the cultures they had seen...
to my knowledge it was important to speak to the leader before any decisions were made for them, but they met people who could tell their "leaders" a lie and get away with it.
one side learned to keep curiosity over fear to learn best method of self preservation.
the other learned to fear, subdue and then be curious about for the benefit of self preservation.

They had every reason to doubt or fear outside cultures judging from the cultures they had seen. You had cultures in South and Central America practicing human sacrifice on whatever poor group they decided to pick on. Cortez wants to get as much gold from the powers that be in what we now call Mexico? All he had to do was find some people angry at the powers that be and form and alliance providing him manpower and knowledge of the area. In return the natives like the Tlaxcallan got protection against the Aztecs and got revenge for past grudge. The natives weren't idiots, nor were they victims, they were human. Some wanted to work with the newcomers, some resisted, some were forced into war. The fact that they all got screwed in this end wasn't something foreseeable until it was far too late to do anything and the colonialists tried to play one tribe off another everywhere they wanted to establish a presence. Native Americans were far more nuanced than books even now give them credit for either from simplicities sake or for racism. Who knows.

GRM

Really? Not our system. They made it out to be this big horrible event where millions and millions of Jews died. They were almost wiped out is what we were told.

Approximately 6 million Jews with 5 million others sharing their fate. The Nazis were very meticulous with the data they took, including the stuff that got people hung after Nuremberg. The Final Solution and all the steps to it were Well Documented. You really should stop watching "documentaries" from denialists with the expectation of finding the truth because you won't find it from irrational people.