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Seraphim6496

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 9:43 am
If the Mormon church is of God, why are there so many Satanic and pagan symbols involved? There are pentagrams on Mormon temples. The crescent moon is a pagan symbol.

http://www.lds-temple.org/index.php?page=pent

http://www.prophezine.com/PZArticles/MyNameisLuciferByRayGano/tabid/816/Default.aspx  
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 10:48 am
Quote:
Many keystones of the windows and doors in the Salt Lake City LDS Temple are engraved with five-pointed stars. There were some on the LDS Temple in Nauvoo, as well as many buildings of other religions. Most writers attribute the five-point star as a symbol pointing to the coming of the Saviour, based on the prophecy "There shall come a star out of Jacob;..." (Numbers 24:17) and on the Lord's words "I am the root of the offspring of David and the bright and morning star" (Revelation 22:16). The prophecy was fulfilled when the star appeared in Bethlehem on the night of the birth of Jesus. It is called the Star of the East and the Star of Bethlehem and is a symbol of divine guidance. (Our Christian Sym. P. 59; Signs and Symbols, p. 59). Funk and Wagnalls Company lists the star as the dawn of hope and the five-pointed star of perfection. (Funk and Wagnalls Company pp. 1095-1096).

According to an article by Herman R. Bangerter: The five-pointed star as the lesser seal of Solomon initiates the individual into the mysteries of Godliness...After meditation and instruction they become priests and priestesses after the order of Melchizedek and as they master the spiritual laws they advance to the six-pointed star, or the great seal of Solomon, where the physical and spiritual become inseparably connected, in the Celestial Kingdom of eternal life. (Temples p. 242).


Quote taken from the book "Celestial Symbols" By. Allen H. Barber


And the Moon on the Temple represents one of the glories in God's realm. There are three major symbols from the Bible that describe and are used to symbolize God's realm, namely Sun, Moon, and Stars....see 1 Corinthians 15:40-42. If you'd like I can elaborate more on this aspect.  

Shadows-shine

Invisible Shapeshifter


Someoneiknow

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 12:53 pm
Si_Copathic
If the Mormon church is of God, why are there so many Satanic and pagan symbols involved? There are pentagrams on Mormon temples. The crescent moon is a pagan symbol.

http://www.lds-temple.org/index.php?page=pent

http://www.prophezine.com/PZArticles/MyNameisLuciferByRayGano/tabid/816/Default.aspx


Pagan religions relate more to things of the Earth rather than what you are trying to point out. Strictly by your blanket term of "Pagan" the cross could be considered a pagan symbol, meaning "four corners" or some other such symbolism. Since you use a blanket term, pagan can be cults, occults, religious pagans, etc. Really though, there is no thing out there, that we use as symbols, that can't be traced back to something else. It is the uniqueness of our religions, they are all connected some how. So please, don't try to throw in that there is similarities between "pagan" and the LDS church. It's not our similarities, but our differences that distinguish us.  
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 7:11 pm
quote
The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (that there is only one God, Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, and Jesus rose from the dead physically, the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation.

Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation. It teaches that he was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the Book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. cool . This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator all (John 1:3; Col. 1;16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is God in flesh, it teaches that he is "a" god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 44:6,8; 45:5). See Trinity for a correct discussion of what the Trinity is.

Because Mormonism denies the biblical truth of who God is, who Jesus is, how forgiveness of sins is attained, and what the gospel is, the Mormon is not Christian -- in spite of all his claims that he is Christian.

Taken from here.  

WoodSorrelWitch


Someoneiknow

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 8:43 pm
PawzPrint
quote
The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (that there is only one God, Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, and Jesus rose from the dead physically, the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation.

Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation. It teaches that he was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the Book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. cool . This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator all (John 1:3; Col. 1;16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is God in flesh, it teaches that he is "a" god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 44:6,8; 45:5). See Trinity for a correct discussion of what the Trinity is.

Because Mormonism denies the biblical truth of who God is, who Jesus is, how forgiveness of sins is attained, and what the gospel is, the Mormon is not Christian -- in spite of all his claims that he is Christian.

Taken from here.


The LDS Church doesn't deny the Biblical teachings of God. We deny your creeds that you have established that state "this is how we are Christians" and instead go to the traditional roots of Christianity.

Remember, Christ talked to the Father, in scripture. So if they are the same, what's the point of praying to Himself? That's a ridiculous theory, making Christ out to be a loony.

The Trinity is a ridiculous claim. It doesn't follow the Biblical truth. Trinity is no where in the doctrine of Christ, but yet a creed a thousand years later says it's suddenly what Christ was. This belief has turned God from a personal, loving, caring individual into a unknowable, unrecognizable, unbelievable being that exists outside of anything that we recognize as Heavenly. Just because our doctrine states that God had a body of flesh and bone, doesn't demean Him. Genesis says we were made in His image, are we suddenly throwing that out the window? Is God NOT ALLOWED to look like us? Are we not all just trying to be like Christ? Well then, how do we become like Christ, when the Trinity is explained as some mist, vapor, something of a cloud which surrounds us all, but yet we can't attain that. No one, not even the most learned Christian scholars, can come up with an accurate depiction of the Trinity. They can't explain it, they can't recognize it, they can't even know it, but yet we choose to believe it, when the Bible states explicitly that we must know our God. The Trinity defeats all intents and purposes of know our Heavenly Father from it's very conception and denies His existence with those who desire to know Him. Those that try to wrap their minds around the Trinity are already breaking a commandment of God, because they cannot know Him in the simplest sense.  
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:07 pm
Let me just say that believing the the trinity does not make one a Christian!


Also I want to post this here too...

Quote:
Why do we say that the Book of Mormon contains “the fulness of the gospel” (D&C 20:9) when it doesn’t contain some of the basic teachings of the Church? Why doesn’t it include such doctrines as the three degrees of glory, marriage for eternity, premortal existence of spirits, and baptism for the dead?

Daniel H. Ludlow, “Questions and Answers,” Tambuli, Apr.–May 1986, 14–17

Daniel H. Ludlow, director, Correlation Review.

Jesus Christ himself defined the word gospel to the Nephites: “Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.” The Savior then reviewed for the Nephites the facts of the Atonement, including the need to repent, be baptized, receive the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end. (See 3 Ne. 27:13–22.)

Gospel means “good news”—the good news that Jesus Christ has made it possible for us to return to the presence of our Heavenly Father. Through his perfect, sinless life and his suffering in Gethsemane and on the cross, Jesus Christ atoned for the original transgression of Adam and Eve and made it possible for us to be redeemed from spiritual death, which is the consequence of sin. Also through his atonement, including his crucifixion and resurrection, he has saved us from the permanent effects of physical death.

In addition to these aspects of the Atonement, which apply to all mankind, the “good news” also includes things that we must do in order to reenter God’s presence. Peter mentioned some of these principles when he and other Apostles were asked on the day of Pentecost, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” His reply was “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:37–38.)

Peter’s answer parallels our fourth article of faith: “We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

One of the best summary statements of the gospel was given by the Savior to the Nephites:

“And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.

“Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day.

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel; and ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do.” (3 Ne. 27:19–21.)

The essentials of the “fulness of the gospel” are contained in this one brief statement of the Book of Mormon, although they are also discussed in greater detail throughout this sacred scripture. In these verses, the Book of Mormon clearly emphasizes and explains the doctrine of the Atonement and the basic principles and ordinances of the gospel. (See the many references to these topics in the Index of the Book of Mormon.) If these are observed, a person may regain the presence of God in the celestial kingdom. Thus, the Book of Mormon can appropriately be said to contain the fulness of the gospel—the “good news”—even though it might not discuss all the ordinances necessary for exaltation.

Now let’s look at the second part of the question—why the Book of Mormon doesn’t contain information on all the doctrines of the Church.

An effective author has an audience and a purpose in mind as he prepares his material. Thus, it is important to understand the purpose of the authors of the Book of Mormon in order to understand why it contains what it does and why it doesn’t contain other information.

The four major writers (engravers and/ or compilers) of the Book of Mormon are Nephi (117 pages), Jacob (19 pages), Mormon (338 pages), and Moroni (50 pages). All four of these authors were personal witnesses of Jesus Christ. Nephi and Jacob were visited by the premortal Jesus Christ (see 2 Ne. 11:2–3), and Mormon and Moroni were visited by the resurrected Jesus Christ (see Morm. 1:15; Ether 12:22–39). Moroni also provides us with the testimony of the brother of Jared concerning the premortal Christ. (See Ether 3:9–16.) Thus, the writings of these four brethren constitute a strong witness for the divinity of Christ.

All four of these authors indicate that the major purpose of their writings is to lead people to Christ. Some of them also indicate that they intend their writings to serve as a second witness of the teachings of the Bible (the “record of the Jews”). At no time do any of them indicate that they will include all the teachings and ordinances of the gospel. In fact, they frequently mention they will include only those things which are necessary to a belief in Christ or those things which they have been inspired or commanded to write. (See 1 Ne. 19:2; 2 Ne. 28:2; 2 Ne. 31:1; 2 Ne. 32:7; Jacob 1:19; 3 Ne. 26:12; 3 Ne. 30:1; Morm. 5:9–13; Morm. 8:1; Ether 8:20; Ether 13:13.)

As brief examples, note the following statements of these four authors concerning their knowledge of Christ:

Nephi: “We labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ. …

“We talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.” (2 Ne. 25:23, 26.)

Jacob: “For this intent have we written these things, that they [the readers] may know that we knew of Christ, and we had a hope of his glory many hundred years before his coming; and not only we ourselves had a hope of his glory, but also all the holy prophets which were before us.” (Jacob 4:4.)

Mormon: “Know ye that ye must come to the knowledge of your fathers, and repent of all your sins and iniquities, and believe in Jesus Christ, that he is the Son of God. …

“Therefore repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus, and lay hold upon the gospel of Christ, which shall be set before you, not only in this record but also in the record which shall come unto the Gentiles from the Jews, which record shall come from the Gentiles unto you.

“For behold, this [the Book of Mormon] is written for the intent that ye may believe that [the Bible]; and if ye believe that ye will believe this also; and if ye believe this ye will know concerning your fathers, and also the marvelous works which were wrought by the power of God among them.” (Morm. 7:5, 8–9.)

Moroni: “I exhort you to remember these things; … for ye shall see me at the bar of God; and the Lord God will say unto you: Did I not declare my words unto you, which were written by this man? …

“Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him. …

“And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.” (Moro. 10:27, 32–33.)

These four writers also understood that their writings would come forth in the last days during a period of unbelief, when the true Church had been taken from the earth. (See 2 Ne. 25:3–23; 2 Ne. 26:16–24; Jacob 4:4, 13–16; Morm. 8:25–35; Moro. 10:24–34.) Thus, their stated purpose was to help lead us to Christ and to the true Church, rather than to provide all the teachings and ordinances of the gospel that we might receive after becoming members of the Church.

Explaining some of the procedures he followed during the abridgement of the plates, Mormon indicated that it wasn’t possible to record everything: “I cannot write the hundredth part of the things of my people.” (W of M 1:5.) However, he and the other major writers of the plates were faithful to their express mission of testifying of Jesus Christ.

The Lord has indicated that he works with his children by providing them information “line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little.” (2 Ne. 28:30.) Thus, even on 6 April 1830, when the Church was restored in this dispensation, many of the ordinances we now have were not available to the early Church members. For example, the revelations providing much of the information on the topics mentioned in the question were not received until later:

1. A wealth of information on the three degrees of glory is contained in section 76 of the Doctrine and Covenants [D&C 76], which was not received until 16 February 1832.

2. Major teachings and instructions pertaining to marriage for eternity date from May 1843 (D&C 131) and July 1843 (D&C 132).

3. Teachings pertaining to the pre-earthly existence of spirits were not given by the Prophet Joseph Smith until well after the establishment of the Church. Some of his most significant statements on this subject were made at the April conference of the Church in 1844. (See Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, selected by Joseph Fielding Smith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1938, pp. 342–62.)

4. Instructions on baptism for the dead are found primarily in section 124 (January 1841) and sections 127 and 128 (September 1842).

When Jesus Christ was on the earth, he also experienced the gospel “line upon line”: “He received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness;

“And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fulness at the first.” (D&C 93:13–14.)

Concerning this principle of learning line upon line and precept upon precept, the Lord has said:

“I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness. …

“And no man receiveth a fulness unless he keepeth his commandments.” (D&C 93:19, 27.)

These principles are consistent with the concept of a living prophet who is entitled to receive the mind and will of the Lord by the power of the Holy Ghost for the members of the true Church. (See D&C 68:4.) This idea is also expressed in our ninth article of faith: “We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.”

These teachings and doctrines are in accord with the statement of the Prophet Joseph Smith that the principles of the gospel are “according to the Holy Scriptures, and the Book of Mormon; and the only way that man can enter into the celestial kingdom.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 16.) The fulness of the gospel as contained in the Book of Mormon means that it contains those instructions a person needs to observe in order to be worthy to enter the presence of God in the celestial kingdom.

[illustration] The principle of baptism was taught in the Book of Mormon. Other ordinances were revealed in later years. (Painting by Arnold Friberg.)

Some passages in the Book of Mormon seem to indicate that there is only one God and that he is a spirit only. How can we explain this?

Roy W. Doxey, “Questions and Answers,” Tambuli, Apr.–May 1986, 17–19

Roy W. Doxey, assistant in the office of the Council of the Twelve and dean emeritus of Religious Instruction, Brigham Young University.

Readers of the Book of Mormon are sometimes concerned with passages that seem to contradict LDS doctrine on the Godhead. But when we look at these passages in context, along with teachings found throughout the book, we find that the Book of Mormon does indeed teach that God the Father, his Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three separate beings and that the Father and the Son are not personages of spirit.

Is there more than one God? The question is often raised in response to Alma chapter 11, where Zeezrom, a critic, is contending with the missionary Amulek:

“Now Zeezrom was a man who was expert in the devices of the devil, that he might destroy that which was good; therefore, he said unto Amulek: Will ye answer the questions which I shall put unto you?

“And Amulek said unto him: Yea, if it be according to the Spirit of the Lord, which is in me; for I shall say nothing which is contrary to the Spirit of the Lord. And Zeezrom said unto him: Behold, here are six onties of silver, and all these will I give thee if thou wilt deny the existence of a Supreme Being. …

“And Zeezrom said unto him: Thou sayest there is a true and living God?

“And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God.

“Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God?

“And he answered, No.

“Now Zeezrom said unto him again: How knowest thou these things?

“And he said: An angel hath made them known unto me.” (Alma 11:21–22, 26–31.)

In order to understand Amulek’s statement, we must look at the full context. Throughout most of their history, many Israelites (forefathers of the Nephites) were eager to accept the numerous pagan gods of the Egyptians and Canaanites. Although the Book of Mormon is silent about the specific apostate notions held by the people in Zeezrom’s city of Ammonihah, it is clear that some apostate Nephites of Alma’s time were idolatrous—as some of their Israelite fathers had been. When Alma, Amulek’s missionary companion, was chief judge as well as high priest over the church, he helped to establish a strong and faithful body of church members. Nevertheless, “those who did not belong to their church did indulge themselves in sorceries, and in idolatry.” (Alma 1:32.) Apostasy was such a problem that Alma later gave up the judgment seat, “that he himself might go forth among his people, or among the people of Nephi, that he might preach the word of God unto them.” (Alma 4:19.)

As a missionary, Alma found that many of the people were steeped in idolatry. He discovered, for example, that the people in the city of Zoram “were perverting the ways of the Lord, and that Zoram, who was their leader, was leading the hearts of the people to bow down to dumb idols.” (Alma 31:1.)

This is the context, then, of the discussion Alma and Amulek had with Zeezrom. Seen in this light, Amulek’s answer is completely understandable and, of course, correct: There is only one “true and living God”—who shares none of his godhood with the hosts of false gods invented by man.

Of course Amulek knew that there are three separate personages in the Godhead and that they are one in purpose. He declared to Zeezrom that in time all will be brought before the judgment bar of “Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God.” (Alma 11:44.) Since the Son and the Holy Spirit are one in purpose, mission, and glory with the “true and living God,” the three are indeed “one Eternal God.”

Following Amulek’s discussion with Zeezrom, Alma, “seeing that the words of Amulek had silenced Zeezrom, … opened his mouth and began to speak unto him, and to establish the words of Amulek, and to explain things beyond, or to unfold the scriptures beyond that which Amulek had done.” (Alma 12:1.) In the course of explaining “things beyond” to Zeezrom, Alma made the concept of Godhead even clearer:

“God did call on men, in the name of his Son, (this being the plan of redemption which was laid) saying: If ye will repent, and harden not your hearts, then will I have mercy upon you, through mine Only Begotten Son;

“Therefore, whosoever repenteth, and hardeneth not his heart, he shall have claim on mercy through mine Only Begotten Son, unto a remission of his sins.” (Alma 12:33–34; italics added.)

Here is clarification of the truth that God and his Only Begotten Son are separate and distinct from each other—and it is found within Alma and Amulek’s discussion with Zeezrom.

It is interesting that Amulek’s statement about one “true and living God” is similar to one given by Paul in a similar context. “We know that an idol is nothing in the world,” Paul told the Corinthians, “and that there is none other God but one.

“For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

“But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” (1 Cor. 8:4–6.) Like Amulek, Paul declared that there is only one God—the Father. But he also testified of the divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Elsewhere in the Book of Mormon, the distinction between the Father and the Son is clearly illustrated. For example, immediately before Christ’s appearance to the Nephites after his resurrection, the people heard the voice of the Father proclaiming: “Behold my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name—hear ye him.” Then they “cast their eyes up again towards heaven; and behold, they saw a Man descending out of heaven”—the Son, Jesus Christ. (See 3 Ne. 11:7–8.) This experience is similar to the Bible’s accounts of the Savior’s baptism and transfiguration, in which the Father spoke from the heavens, acknowledging his Beloved Son who was on earth. (See Matt. 3:17; Matt. 17:5.)

The oneness of the Godhead in purpose (the salvation of man) is also illustrated in both the Book of Mormon and the Bible. In the Book of Mormon, the resurrected Christ prayed:

“Father, I pray not for the world, but for those whom thou hast given me out of the world, because of their faith, that they may be purified in me, that I may be in them as thou, Father, art in me, that we may be one, that I may be glorified in them.” (3 Ne. 19:29.)

The Bible records a similar prayer that the Savior uttered during his ministry in Palestine. (See John 17:11, 21–22.) On both occasions Jesus was praying for a oneness in purpose for all the disciples as the Father and he were one in purpose—not in essence or substance.

Is the Son of God the Eternal Father? Zeezrom sought to confuse the issue by asking, “Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?

“And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;

“And he shall come into the world to redeem his people; and he shall take upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name.” (Alma 11:38–40.)

The Book of Mormon makes it clear that although Jesus Christ is the Son of God, there are some ways in which he is our Father. In one way, he is the Father of the earth, since he created it under the Father’s direction. King Benjamin declared, for example, that the Savior “shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning.” (Mosiah 3:8; italics added.)

This is not new doctrine. Biblical prophets also testified that the Son was the Creator of the heaven and earth. John bore witness that “all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:3.) Paul declared that by the Son “were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth.” (Col. 1:16.) But it is also clear that the Son acted as the Father’s agent; Paul wrote to the Ephesians of “God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.” (Eph. 3:9.)

Jesus Christ is the Father in another way as well. For those who accept the gospel, he becomes their Father by adoption and covenant in their new relationship with him. Abinadi alluded to this relationship when he spoke of the seed of Jesus—the prophets and “those who have hearkened unto their words.” (See Mosiah 15:10–13.) King Benjamin also made this relationship clear: “Because of the covenant which ye have made,” he told a group of repentant Nephites, “ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.” (Mosiah 5:7.) Thus, Jesus Christ becomes the Father of the righteous through adoption.

Jesus Christ is also the Father because the Eternal Father gave him authority to represent him. The resurrected Christ taught the Nephites that they should pray to the Father in his name because he and the Father are one. (See 3 Ne. 20:31, 35.) Jesus had also taught his disciples in Palestine that “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30); yet he declared that “my Father is greater than I” (John 14:2 cool , and that “I am come in my Father’s name” (John 5:43).

Is God a spirit? Some readers of the Book of Mormon have been concerned that in two passages God is called a “Great Spirit.” Again, it is important to see these passages in context.

When Ammon was teaching the Lamanite king Lamoni, he asked: “Believest thou that there is a God?

“And he answered, and said unto him: I do not know what that meaneth.

“And then Ammon said: Believest thou that there is a Great Spirit?

“And he said, Yea.

“And Ammon said: This is God.” (Alma 18:24–28.)

On another occasion, when Ammon’s brother, Aaron, was teaching Lamoni’s father, the king said: “Is God that Great Spirit that brought our fathers out of the land of Jerusalem?

“And Aaron said unto him: Yea, he is that Great Spirit, and he created all things both in heaven and in earth.” (Alma 22:9–10.)

In these instances, Ammon and Aaron simply accepted the kings’ definition of God as sufficient until the kings could be taught a broader basis of truth, upon which further information could be built.

But were the missionaries teaching false doctrine? No; both kings were taught that the “Great Spirit” was the creator of all things in heaven and in earth—Jesus Christ. As Jehovah, the premortal Jesus Christ was a spirit being who, at that time, could properly have been referred to as a Great Spirit, the Creator of all things.

The Book of Mormon makes known the doctrine of the physical reality of the Father and the Son, dispelling any notion that they are spirit beings. For example, when the Brother of Jared saw the spirit body of the premortal Christ, the Lord said, “Seest thou that ye are created after mine own image? Yea, even all men were created in the beginning after mine own image.

“Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.” (Ether 3:15–16.)

Two millennia later, Jehovah entered earth life, his spirit joining his mortal body, thus taking upon himself the physical image of God, the same “image after which man was created in the beginning.” (Mosiah 7:27.)

When the resurrected Christ appeared to his disciples in Jerusalem and in America, he invited them to thrust their hands into his side and to feel the prints of the nails in his hands and feet. (See John 20:27; 3 Ne. 11:14.) Then, at the close of his visits with the Nephites, the physically resurrected Lord said, “And now I go unto the Father.” (3 Ne. 27:28.)

Although the Book of Mormon is an abridgment containing not even “the hundredth part” of what could have been included (see W of M 1:5), it contains the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, including the true doctrine of the Godhead.
 

Shadows-shine

Invisible Shapeshifter


WoodSorrelWitch

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:32 pm
Someoneiknow
The Trinity is a ridiculous claim. It doesn't follow the Biblical truth. Trinity is no where in the doctrine of Christ, but yet a creed a thousand years later says it's suddenly what Christ was.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Someoneiknow
This belief has turned God from a personal, loving, caring individual into a unknowable, unrecognizable, unbelievable being that exists outside of anything that we recognize as Heavenly.

To you maybe. And maybe you have that view of the Trinity because you are trying to rationalize it so that it makes perfect sense to you.

Someoneiknow
Just because our doctrine states that God had a body of flesh and bone, doesn't demean Him.

And how do you know that God might have a body of flesh and bone? Jesus is God in the flesh. But that is only one third of God. There is God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.

Someoneiknow
Genesis says we were made in His image, are we suddenly throwing that out the window? Is God NOT ALLOWED to look like us? Are we not all just trying to be like Christ?

That verse is saying that we are made in His image, spiritually. We are trying to be like Christ in the way that He acted. He acted in accordance to the Word and He obeyed God. The Bible does not mention, to my knowledge, of making ourselves physically look like God. If it did, then I ask you what God looks like.

Someoneiknow
Well then, how do we become like Christ, when the Trinity is explained as some mist, vapor, something of a cloud which surrounds us all, but yet we can't attain that.

Again, we become like Christ by following His example.

Someoneiknow
No one, not even the most learned Christian scholars, can come up with an accurate depiction of the Trinity. They can't explain it, they can't recognize it, they can't even know it, but yet we choose to believe it, when the Bible states explicitly that we must know our God.

Because God is God and we are not. Who are we to understand His ways if He should desire to not tell us? If He told us everything, what part would faith play?

Someoneiknow
The Trinity defeats all intents and purposes of know our Heavenly Father from it's very conception and denies His existence with those who desire to know Him.

I fail to see how the Trinity can keep me from knowing God. He gave us His Word. He gave us all that we need to know about Him in the Bible.

Someoneiknow
Those that try to wrap their minds around the Trinity are already breaking a commandment of God, because they cannot know Him in the simplest sense.

And what commandment is that? Verse, please?  
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:36 pm
Shadows-shine
Let me just say that believing the the trinity does not make one a Christian!

The Trinity is made up of God the Father, God in the flesh (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. If you do not believe in the Trinity, do you deny the existence of two out of the three then?

Shadows-shine
Also I want to post this here too...

Yeah, I am not going to sit there and read all of that. Posting tl;dr posts doesn't add to the discussion at all, imho.  

WoodSorrelWitch


Someoneiknow

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:51 pm
Quote:
How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Duh? It's in the Bible everywhere.

Quote:
To you maybe. And maybe you have that view of the Trinity because you are trying to rationalize it so that it makes perfect sense to you.

No, yet again it's in the Bible. Perhaps you should read it rather than believing everything a Pastor tells you to believe.

Quote:
And how do you know that God might have a body of flesh and bone? Jesus is God in the flesh. But that is only one third of God. There is God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.

No, there is Heavenly Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Yet again, it's in the Bible.


Quote:
That verse is saying that we are made in His image, spiritually. We are trying to be like Christ in the way that He acted. He acted in accordance to the Word and He obeyed God. The Bible does not mention, to my knowledge, of making ourselves physically look like God. If it did, then I ask you what God looks like.

The Bible does not mention, "and you look like us spirit wise". Where did you pull that out of? It says we were made in His image. How more blunt do you need it?


Quote:
Again, we become like Christ by following His example.

Because we can attain what He was like, because He was physical, He was tangible, and so we can do exactly what He did. Saying that He wasn't human makes it impossible for us to be like Him. He has commanded us, "be ye therefore perfect." How can we be perfect, if we were never even made like Him to begin with?

Quote:
Because God is God and we are not. Who are we to understand His ways if He should desire to not tell us? If He told us everything, what part would faith play?

Oh please, faith plays where we still believe in a God that we cannot see, not a God that we can't even know. Does praying to a god who you can't even level on a personal level make it easier?


Quote:
I fail to see how the Trinity can keep me from knowing God. He gave us His Word. He gave us all that we need to know about Him in the Bible.

Because you can't know God when He suddenly becomes something He's not. Just because the Nicene Creed tells you something doesn't make it law, it makes it a broad assumption a bunch of men told you to believe. That's not God's work, that's a bunch of dunderheads work.


Quote:
And what commandment is that? Verse, please?


Must I really? It's in the four gospels! Christ tells repeatedly that you must know Him, for if thou does not know Him, then you do not attain heaven. To know Christ lived! To know He is our Redeemer. That He is the Son of God! How can He be the Son of God, if He's also playing God the Father? You cannot know He is the Son of God, if you're busy saying He is God the Father. Does He reproduce Himself now? NO! They are seperate beings! This is an important distinction, because by know way will you be able to even recognize your Redeemer at the last days if you can't even know that they are not some sort of conglomeration of some misguided creed.  
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:47 am
PawzPrint
Shadows-shine
Let me just say that believing the the trinity does not make one a Christian!

The Trinity is made up of God the Father, God in the flesh (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. If you do not believe in the Trinity, do you deny the existence of two out of the three then?.



No I don't deny the existence of all three of them or any of them. I believe they are three exist, but they are not one in the same. There are just too many verses in the Bible that show that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are separate beings.  

Shadows-shine

Invisible Shapeshifter

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