The Cross

[WoodSorrelWitch]

Someoneiknow

I know Christ is up there looking down right now say "all they can do is worship my death device and praise my death?" We should celebrate His life and all the things He taught and did, not just the act of Him dying.

Do you know why He died for us? His death is very important. Without Jesus giving up His life and dying for us, we would not have life. We would still be dead to sin.
When I give praise to Jesus, I pray thanks for doing what He did. Because it was in an act of love that He died for us.

 

[Kyramud]

I don't wear a cross out of some misguided perception that I'm in some way glorifying his death. I know full well that his death was the highest form of humiliation the leaders of the day could wish to bestow on someone. I wear a cross as a simple reminder that he lives. However long ago he was born, he lived, he died, all that jazz, but it didn't end on the cross. He is risen, and that simple fact is the one thing that I am constantly reminded of when ever I put on a necklace with a little metal "t" on it. The symbol itself has no real significance for me in and of itself, it's the life, the ministry, the person behind the symbol that gives the cross its meaning for me.  

[Someoneiknow]

PawzPrint

Someoneiknow

I know Christ is up there looking down right now say "all they can do is worship my death device and praise my death?" We should celebrate His life and all the things He taught and did, not just the act of Him dying.

Do you know why He died for us? His death is very important. Without Jesus giving up His life and dying for us, we would not have life. We would still be dead to sin.
When I give praise to Jesus, I pray thanks for doing what He did. Because it was in an act of love that He died for us.

So you worship Him because you think that's the ONLY thing He did for us?  

[Someoneiknow]

Kyramud

I don't wear a cross out of some misguided perception that I'm in some way glorifying his death. I know full well that his death was the highest form of humiliation the leaders of the day could wish to bestow on someone. I wear a cross as a simple reminder that he lives. However long ago he was born, he lived, he died, all that jazz, but it didn't end on the cross. He is risen, and that simple fact is the one thing that I am constantly reminded of when ever I put on a necklace with a little metal "t" on it. The symbol itself has no real significance for me in and of itself, it's the life, the ministry, the person behind the symbol that gives the cross its meaning for me.

But is that felt amongst all who wear it?

Here's a good example.

Quote:

Kisses

The more the dollar is printed, the less each one is worth.
And so it is with kisses you’ve given since your birth.
The value of your kisses, a sample cannot measure,
Nor is your kiss more worthy if it’s said to give one pleasure.
The more and more you give away, the better your kiss is known.
And to all the world, your kiss is cheap, and your affection shown.
But if you save your kisses, no matter what the cost,
You’ll find as time moves forward, a chance you’ve saved, not lost!
Then when you find the one you love, with whom you’ll live life through,
Think of the worth of a perfect kiss, if saved for only you . . .
(Alvin W. Jones III. Used by permission.)

So the more you see the cross today, the less meaning it has towards people. They do not see the significance, and they use it for less meaningful purposes. I think a memory held in our hearts, and remembering through songs, poetry and the like is something more meaningful, then prostituting the death of our Lord and Saviour around everyone's neck and atop of churches and on front lawns and on cars.
We have let our churches and how we view God become worldly. We have rock concerts, we have buses, we have billboards, parks, eateries, and even restrooms, flashing Christ, the cross, and His name all over it. It's disturbing to think that God sees His name plastered everywhere, but yet those same individuals won't even get down on their knees every morning, night, and before each meal to sing praise to Him. So I feel it has nothing to do with how much you commercialize the name of God, but it has everything to do with how your heart is turned towards Him. And you need quiet moments, away from all the commercializing, to remember why He lives.  

[Kyramud]

Someoneiknow

Kyramud

I don't wear a cross out of some misguided perception that I'm in some way glorifying his death. I know full well that his death was the highest form of humiliation the leaders of the day could wish to bestow on someone. I wear a cross as a simple reminder that he lives. However long ago he was born, he lived, he died, all that jazz, but it didn't end on the cross. He is risen, and that simple fact is the one thing that I am constantly reminded of when ever I put on a necklace with a little metal "t" on it. The symbol itself has no real significance for me in and of itself, it's the life, the ministry, the person behind the symbol that gives the cross its meaning for me.

But is that felt amongst all who wear it?


Here's a good example.

Quote:

Kisses

The more the dollar is printed, the less each one is worth.
And so it is with kisses you’ve given since your birth.
The value of your kisses, a sample cannot measure,
Nor is your kiss more worthy if it’s said to give one pleasure.
The more and more you give away, the better your kiss is known.
And to all the world, your kiss is cheap, and your affection shown.
But if you save your kisses, no matter what the cost,
You’ll find as time moves forward, a chance you’ve saved, not lost!
Then when you find the one you love, with whom you’ll live life through,
Think of the worth of a perfect kiss, if saved for only you . . .
(Alvin W. Jones III. Used by permission.)

So the more you see the cross today, the less meaning it has towards people. They do not see the significance, and they use it for less meaningful purposes. I think a memory held in our hearts, and remembering through songs, poetry and the like is something more meaningful, then prostituting the death of our Lord and Saviour around everyone's neck and atop of churches and on front lawns and on cars.
We have let our churches and how we view God become worldly. We have rock concerts, we have buses, we have billboards, parks, eateries, and even restrooms, flashing Christ, the cross, and His name all over it. It's disturbing to think that God sees His name plastered everywhere, but yet those same individuals won't even get down on their knees every morning, night, and before each meal to sing praise to Him. So I feel it has nothing to do with how much you commercialize the name of God, but it has everything to do with how your heart is turned towards Him. And you need quiet moments, away from all the commercializing, to remember why He lives.

I can't speak for all who wear it, nor do I care. My point was to try to make clear why I feel the way I do about wearing a cross. If others want to act as you have said, that's between them and God. I'll continue to wear my cross for the reasons I have already stated.  

[okami-verde]

Kyramud

Someoneiknow

Kyramud

I don't wear a cross out of some misguided perception that I'm in some way glorifying his death. I know full well that his death was the highest form of humiliation the leaders of the day could wish to bestow on someone. I wear a cross as a simple reminder that he lives. However long ago he was born, he lived, he died, all that jazz, but it didn't end on the cross. He is risen, and that simple fact is the one thing that I am constantly reminded of when ever I put on a necklace with a little metal "t" on it. The symbol itself has no real significance for me in and of itself, it's the life, the ministry, the person behind the symbol that gives the cross its meaning for me.

But is that felt amongst all who wear it?


Here's a good example.

Quote:

Kisses

The more the dollar is printed, the less each one is worth.
And so it is with kisses you’ve given since your birth.
The value of your kisses, a sample cannot measure,
Nor is your kiss more worthy if it’s said to give one pleasure.
The more and more you give away, the better your kiss is known.
And to all the world, your kiss is cheap, and your affection shown.
But if you save your kisses, no matter what the cost,
You’ll find as time moves forward, a chance you’ve saved, not lost!
Then when you find the one you love, with whom you’ll live life through,
Think of the worth of a perfect kiss, if saved for only you . . .
(Alvin W. Jones III. Used by permission.)

So the more you see the cross today, the less meaning it has towards people. They do not see the significance, and they use it for less meaningful purposes. I think a memory held in our hearts, and remembering through songs, poetry and the like is something more meaningful, then prostituting the death of our Lord and Saviour around everyone's neck and atop of churches and on front lawns and on cars.
We have let our churches and how we view God become worldly. We have rock concerts, we have buses, we have billboards, parks, eateries, and even restrooms, flashing Christ, the cross, and His name all over it. It's disturbing to think that God sees His name plastered everywhere, but yet those same individuals won't even get down on their knees every morning, night, and before each meal to sing praise to Him. So I feel it has nothing to do with how much you commercialize the name of God, but it has everything to do with how your heart is turned towards Him. And you need quiet moments, away from all the commercializing, to remember why He lives.

I can't speak for all who wear it, nor do I care. My point was to try to make clear why I feel the way I do about wearing a cross. If others want to act as you have said, that's between them and God. I'll continue to wear my cross for the reasons I have already stated.

I agree Kyramud.  

[thrashmetaljunkie]

Someoneiknow. there are many faiths, and many demoninations of those faiths. our faith, is generally called christianity. why? because we BELIEVE that CHRIST is Lord. We believe that he was born unto a virgin mother, a human mother. that he stepped down from his throne to become mortal like us. We believe that the nativity story is truth, that Jesus was baptised to show an example, that he was a great prophet, a perfect example, sinless, we believe that he died for our sins, and then rose again, because not even death could hold him down. In light of this belief, many people allow subtleties to get in the way of acceptance. Like catholics believe the bread and wine BECOME the body and blood of christ, where protestants believe that it is in MEMORY of Christ's actions. So people fight and bicker, they become bitter and full of hatred. and over what? because they dont believe the same exact thing they believe? because everyone else is wrong, and they are right? People have become blind to the fact (especially christians) that it shouldnt matter the small details you believe in. We ALL believe in Jesus Christ, THAT is what defines our belief as christian. Wether you feel that someone is wearing a cross for the right or wrong reasons doesnt matter at the pearly gates of heaven. If they wear it to remember what their savior has lived and died to do for them, then great. if they wear it just because they think its cool, alright, w/e. even though i personally believe that is most definitely the wrong reason to wear a cross, it is not our place to Judge, that will happen at the pearly gates. However, don't knock someone because they glorify his death. Just because it is glorified, does not mean that is all they care about. i praise Jesus for everything he has done in my life, all the sticky situations he has carried me through, all the small miracles that happen everyday. the fact that i can pray and be able to talk to God because Jesus intercedes for me. The fact that i am now dead to sin, that sin has no hold in my life is something i hold very dear, and that is what these are fine people are trying to get at. They are thankful for his death because it has freed them from a life they may have once led. it is not a sin, its a high form of praise and adoration.  

[Someoneiknow]

thrashmetaljunkie

Someoneiknow. there are many faiths, and many demoninations of those faiths. our faith, is generally called christianity. why? because we BELIEVE that CHRIST is Lord. We believe that he was born unto a virgin mother, a human mother. that he stepped down from his throne to become mortal like us. We believe that the nativity story is truth, that Jesus was baptised to show an example, that he was a great prophet, a perfect example, sinless, we believe that he died for our sins, and then rose again, because not even death could hold him down. In light of this belief, many people allow subtleties to get in the way of acceptance. Like catholics believe the bread and wine BECOME the body and blood of christ, where protestants believe that it is in MEMORY of Christ's actions. So people fight and bicker, they become bitter and full of hatred. and over what? because they dont believe the same exact thing they believe? because everyone else is wrong, and they are right? People have become blind to the fact (especially christians) that it shouldnt matter the small details you believe in. We ALL believe in Jesus Christ, THAT is what defines our belief as christian. Wether you feel that someone is wearing a cross for the right or wrong reasons doesnt matter at the pearly gates of heaven. If they wear it to remember what their savior has lived and died to do for them, then great. if they wear it just because they think its cool, alright, w/e. even though i personally believe that is most definitely the wrong reason to wear a cross, it is not our place to Judge, that will happen at the pearly gates. However, don't knock someone because they glorify his death. Just because it is glorified, does not mean that is all they care about. i praise Jesus for everything he has done in my life, all the sticky situations he has carried me through, all the small miracles that happen everyday. the fact that i can pray and be able to talk to God because Jesus intercedes for me. The fact that i am now dead to sin, that sin has no hold in my life is something i hold very dear, and that is what these are fine people are trying to get at. They are thankful for his death because it has freed them from a life they may have once led. it is not a sin, its a high form of praise and adoration.

This thread was made for a debate. I'm debating. I realize that most protestants don't like what I have to say, because I'm LDS and that bugs most of you, but I'm speaking what I feel to be truth. The cross does matter if you have it pulled up in all of your churches rather than Christ.

Take the Jews back in Moses' time. Why do you think they made a golden calf? Out of some fancy? No, they made a golden calf without blemish. They sacrificed an animal, a young animal, without blemish, for what reason? They sacrificed that because it symbolized the death of Christ coming soon. So they made a golden calf to symbolize what Christ was, the golden choice without blemish, but they didn't know what Christ looked like, so instead they made something that reminded them of Christ. But yet it was still an idol. It still angered the prophet that day, and it angered God.

Now look today. Instead of Christ being in our hearts, we have the same idol that is "supposed" to remind us of Christ. I don't see how it can remind anybody of Christ because all I see with the cross is that it's tampered with, desicrated, mutilated. People have little candles all over it, fake vines, pictures of them all around it, little figures surrounding it. It is an idol. We have people in church bowing down to the cross. We don't remember what Christ did, we just mention that He died on the cross. We don't have pictures of Christ, no, we have the implement He died on. This makes so much perfect sense, but yet still people defend this hunk of wood instead of their Lord and Saviour.  

[WoodSorrelWitch]

Someoneiknow

PawzPrint

Someoneiknow

I know Christ is up there looking down right now say "all they can do is worship my death device and praise my death?" We should celebrate His life and all the things He taught and did, not just the act of Him dying.

Do you know why He died for us? His death is very important. Without Jesus giving up His life and dying for us, we would not have life. We would still be dead to sin.
When I give praise to Jesus, I pray thanks for doing what He did. Because it was in an act of love that He died for us.

So you worship Him because you think that's the ONLY thing He did for us?

Of course not; I know He has done many things for us :3
You were focusing on His death and so I commented about it.
I also know His death means little without His resurrection. Both events, together, are very important.

 

[WoodSorrelWitch]

Before it gets a little too out of hand ^^;;
I feel a bit led to point to Romans 13.
That's all :3

 

[thrashmetaljunkie]

I am not upset about anything you have said, in fact, i agree with you. it pains me to see how lax christians are today. its pathetic. they say they are christian, wear a cross, yet they live the same life as the rest of the world; drugs, sex, money, immorality, its all their favorite past times, and its people like them that give us a bad name. but you must remember, we are not perfect either, as frustrating as it is, it is not our place to judge others, and that is another thing most "christians" do. they say they are christian, but then sit on a high horse and judge others on the same things they are guilty of. I understand what you are saying about the cross, its perturbs me as well, though there is a small bit of understanding of other denominations that must come in as well. they revolve around the cross, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as they still believe and understand exactly what Christ has done. As long as they have true faith, they are following Jesus' command. because with faith comes a desire to do what it calls for, and from that desire, you begin to yearn for more of Christ, and that is exactly what he wanted. it is through faith that the gospel message is spread, not an overwelming sense of "oh... i HAVE to do this." it comes from feeling deep inside that you WANT to. As long as we have that kind of faith we are living on the right path. but again, very few people this day and age actually have it.  

[Saint Crazy The Follower]

Might I point out that this thread was not necessarily made for debating - the OP did say he was just "airing some thoughts".

A 'debate' implies that there has to be a winner, one person proving themselves right, and this is not the case. It is in the discussion forum, which means any person can express what they think freely.

I just thought I would remind you all that nobody has to win here, except that God is glorified. There's no reason to get carried away.

Kudos to everybody for contributing their thoughts.
^^  

[Someoneiknow]

PawzPrint

Someoneiknow

PawzPrint

Someoneiknow

I know Christ is up there looking down right now say "all they can do is worship my death device and praise my death?" We should celebrate His life and all the things He taught and did, not just the act of Him dying.

Do you know why He died for us? His death is very important. Without Jesus giving up His life and dying for us, we would not have life. We would still be dead to sin.
When I give praise to Jesus, I pray thanks for doing what He did. Because it was in an act of love that He died for us.

So you worship Him because you think that's the ONLY thing He did for us?

Of course not; I know He has done many things for us :3
You were focusing on His death and so I commented about it.
I also know His death means little without His resurrection. Both events, together, are very important.

Those two aren't the most important though. They are a string of events that make Christ, the Christ. He has taught many things, but many protestants do not pull out except on rare circumstances, the sower and the seeds, or other such parables.  

[Someoneiknow]

PawzPrint

Before it gets a little too out of hand ^^;;
I feel a bit led to point to Romans 13.
That's all :3

Debate can still be full of love. Many tend to labor under the delusion that the two cannot coincide, but they more often than not, do. Elsewise, why would I waste my time to point out my thoughts for others if I didn't do it out of love? I wouldn't fight so hard if I felt it was a lost cause.  

[Someoneiknow]

thrashmetaljunkie

I am not upset about anything you have said, in fact, i agree with you. it pains me to see how lax christians are today. its pathetic. they say they are christian, wear a cross, yet they live the same life as the rest of the world; drugs, sex, money, immorality, its all their favorite past times, and its people like them that give us a bad name. but you must remember, we are not perfect either, as frustrating as it is, it is not our place to judge others, and that is another thing most "christians" do. they say they are christian, but then sit on a high horse and judge others on the same things they are guilty of. I understand what you are saying about the cross, its perturbs me as well, though there is a small bit of understanding of other denominations that must come in as well. they revolve around the cross, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as they still believe and understand exactly what Christ has done. As long as they have true faith, they are following Jesus' command. because with faith comes a desire to do what it calls for, and from that desire, you begin to yearn for more of Christ, and that is exactly what he wanted. it is through faith that the gospel message is spread, not an overwelming sense of "oh... i HAVE to do this." it comes from feeling deep inside that you WANT to. As long as we have that kind of faith we are living on the right path. but again, very few people this day and age actually have it.

Oh, I never said anybody was going to hell for what they did, for most protestants do many things out of ignorance. They will not be condemned for their lack of knowledge. But I know the pain they will feel when they realize what they have done, and I wish for them to understand before that time.

I am completely and fully aware that I have sinned as well. I know better than all, except for Christ, of what I have done in sin. That doesn't, however, mean that I cannot judge actions. We cannot judge people, but we can judge actions and make accurate punishments. Elsewise, we could not do anything to a murderer, or a rapist, because we could not be judges, however this is not the case.