Egypt and Stuff

[Azkeel]

The media are the ones lifting Israel up as the victim in this. The people are not the ones bombing eachother it's different governments doing it. The Christians, Muslims, and Jews tend to get along when the governments are not involved. Yes there are Muslim extremist that preach doctrine as convert or die. There are Jews that belive they are better then everyone and we are swine. There are also violent Christians.

There is never a reason to take up arms if you are a Christian. "Fighting" for the right reasons? Our fight is to pray for them as they are cutting our head off! When did our Messiah tell us to strike our enemy? Or defend our physical body? I thought vengance was our Father in Heaven's deal and we need not worry.  

[Gregar828]

Wait, are you saying that as we are being physically destroyed by our enemies, we cannot fight back because that would make us "bad christians?" and that we'll go to heaven anyway so it doesn't matter if we die?

........Dude, that is some seriously warped logic. In a bad way.  

[Shadows-shine]

Azkeel

The media are the ones lifting Israel up as the victim in this. The people are not the ones bombing eachother it's different governments doing it. The Christians, Muslims, and Jews tend to get along when the governments are not involved. Yes there are Muslim extremist that preach doctrine as convert or die. There are Jews that belive they are better then everyone and we are swine. There are also violent Christians.

There is never a reason to take up arms if you are a Christian. "Fighting" for the right reasons? Our fight is to pray for them as they are cutting our head off! When did our Messiah tell us to strike our enemy? Or defend our physical body? I thought vengance was our Father in Heaven's deal and we need not worry.

If Christians aren't supposed to take up arms and defend themselves, then what of all those examples in scripture where God had commanded His people to do just that? You don't think He'd expect the same from His people today? Fighting, taking up arms, going to war, etc.are necessary things some times. I would definitely fight some one who was attempting to rob me of the things I hold dear, like my husband and my children! And I would fight to the death for them! I'd even fight to the death for my faith in God.  

[Saint Crazy The Follower]

I believe Azkeel is referring to what Jesus said here:

Quote:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Matthew 5:38-42 (NIV)

Also, while I was searching for that, I found what Paul said of his own sufferings: (long, but worth reading smile

Quote:

I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was pelted with stones, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my fellow Jews, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false believers. I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches. Who is weak, and I do not feel weak? Who is led into sin, and I do not inwardly burn?

If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is to be praised forever, knows that I am not lying.

2 Corinthians 11:23-31


Now, relating back to Egypt... I don't think Israel has anything to worry about, nor do we have anything to worry about as far as the idea of "World War III" goes. Even if war does break out, we have God on our side, and if we live the way God tells us to live we will be safe. There may be sufferings to endure, but God knows we can handle it.
I see no reason for us to fight on God's behalf; frankly, He doesn't need us to fight. He needs us to do what we're told, so that He can take care of the rest. Having faith in Him means listening to His commands, even if it doesn't seem okay to just stand there as we get slapped in the face, or worse.  

[Testicular Diabeetus]

XD
Sorry for not replying sooner, I wasn't near a computer over the weekend.
Anyway, thanks for all of the information.
This is interesting.
3nodding

 

[Haha Coffee]

Testicular Diabeetus

So my Grandma got a letter from this John Hagee guy in the mail.
Same with my mom and lots of other people.
Anyway, in a nutshell it says that what is happening in the middle east is leading up to the end of days.


TBH I didn't believe in the rapture because I saw this documentary on it.
It has already happened way back in Rome. I cant explain it but there was a lot of proof against the rapture and it was all scripture.
Plus I was always told that there isn't scriptural evidence in a rapture or whatever.

I'm am pretty confuzzled. I don't know what to believe.
Can someone shed some light on this?

It pretty much sounds like you just said "I cant explain it, I dont understand it, but a guy on TV said it, and he sounded like he knew what he was saying..therefore what he was saying must be true"
Take care and validate everything "yourself" before you speak, dont just take what other people say at face value.  

[Haha Coffee]

Gregar828

Wait, are you saying that as we are being physically destroyed by our enemies, we cannot fight back because that would make us "bad christians?" and that we'll go to heaven anyway so it doesn't matter if we die?

........Dude, that is some seriously warped logic. In a bad way.

Not really, it's a sound teaching of love based on Scripture

Quote:

You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matt. 5:38-39)

Quote:

Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. (Matt. 5:43-48, Luke 6:27-2 cool

Quote:

Put your sword back in its place...for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. (Matt. 26:52)

Quote:

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Matt. 5:9

Quote:

49 When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.

51 But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him. Luke 22:49-51

Quote:

Romans 12:21
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Quote:

1 Peter 2:21-24 (New International Version, ©2010)

21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

22 “He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.”[a]

23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly

 

[Gregar828]

So what you're saying is, that if/when the muslim extremist world brings destruction to our doorstep, we should not resist, and die knowing we'll go to heaven? No, that is wrong. Yes, these quotes say we should not retaliate to terroristic threats or actions, but when a nation vows to destroy you and everything you stand for, that is taking things to another level. Simply backing down and accepting defeat to those who would destroy you, your religion, and your way of life is NOT a scriptural teaching. Would god want us to back down and be destroyed, with his teachings destroyed with his followers? No. He certainly does not want us to destroy the opposers the way they have vowed to destroy us, but if we must use force to create peace, then so be it.  

[Gregar828]

Dharma Sila

Testicular Diabeetus

So my Grandma got a letter from this John Hagee guy in the mail.
Same with my mom and lots of other people.
Anyway, in a nutshell it says that what is happening in the middle east is leading up to the end of days.


TBH I didn't believe in the rapture because I saw this documentary on it.
It has already happened way back in Rome. I cant explain it but there was a lot of proof against the rapture and it was all scripture.
Plus I was always told that there isn't scriptural evidence in a rapture or whatever.

I'm am pretty confuzzled. I don't know what to believe.
Can someone shed some light on this?

It pretty much sounds like you just said "I cant explain it, I dont understand it, but a guy on TV said it, and he sounded like he knew what he was saying..therefore what he was saying must be true"
Take care and validate everything "yourself" before you speak, dont just take what other people say at face value.

No. What this is saying is "Someone said something that made some sense, but I am still confused. Could someone please help me understand?" She is ASKING us to share our knowledge with her to help her, not blatantly saying that something is true. This entire thread was based off of this question, but you're trying to make it sound as if she was making a declaration of what she thought was truth. This entire thread IS her way of validating herself before she takes what others say at face value. Rather than try to demean her on this, share your own insights. That's what this thread is all about.  

[Haha Coffee]

Gregar828

Dharma Sila

Testicular Diabeetus

So my Grandma got a letter from this John Hagee guy in the mail.
Same with my mom and lots of other people.
Anyway, in a nutshell it says that what is happening in the middle east is leading up to the end of days.


TBH I didn't believe in the rapture because I saw this documentary on it.
It has already happened way back in Rome. I cant explain it but there was a lot of proof against the rapture and it was all scripture.
Plus I was always told that there isn't scriptural evidence in a rapture or whatever.

I'm am pretty confuzzled. I don't know what to believe.
Can someone shed some light on this?

It pretty much sounds like you just said "I cant explain it, I dont understand it, but a guy on TV said it, and he sounded like he knew what he was saying..therefore what he was saying must be true"
Take care and validate everything "yourself" before you speak, dont just take what other people say at face value.

No. What this is saying is "Someone said something that made some sense, but I am still confused. Could someone please help me understand?" She is ASKING us to share our knowledge with her to help her, not blatantly saying that something is true. This entire thread was based off of this question, but you're trying to make it sound as if she was making a declaration of what she thought was truth. This entire thread IS her way of validating herself before she takes what others say at face value. Rather than try to demean her on this, share your own insights. That's what this thread is all about.

Im very sorry, I did not intend to be demeaning, perhaps I should second read more often, but from a once through that's what it seemed she was stating.

Again, very sorry

God Bless  

[Haha Coffee]

Gregar828

So what you're saying is, that if/when the muslim extremist world brings destruction to our doorstep, we should not resist, and die knowing we'll go to heaven? No, that is wrong. Yes, these quotes say we should not retaliate to terroristic threats or actions, but when a nation vows to destroy you and everything you stand for, that is taking things to another level. Simply backing down and accepting defeat to those who would destroy you, your religion, and your way of life is NOT a scriptural teaching. Would god want us to back down and be destroyed, with his teachings destroyed with his followers? No. He certainly does not want us to destroy the opposers the way they have vowed to destroy us, but if we must use force to create peace, then so be it.

So are you saying Christ's commandments only apply when the threat isnt "all that bad"?.

I would of course beg to differ, as I am a strong proponent of Christian Pacifism christ telling us to not draw swords, to turn our cheek's, to give our oponents "more" than they ask for, to reject an eye for an eye, to mimic him in his meekness and humility all are within the Context of Scripture indicative if not ourtright statements to shun violence in all it's forms, even when our lives are in danger.

You say "Would God want us to back down and be destroyed?" who are you(and yes even who am I) to say that he would not?
The Death of Billions of Christians could be a requirement, could be part of his plan it could be anything.

But you do not "ever" say an action is wrong, and proceed to perform it yourself, even if it is to stop the action you are decrying.
Christ was never a hypocryt, but he was meek and humble.  

[Gregar828]

Dharma Sila

Gregar828

So what you're saying is, that if/when the muslim extremist world brings destruction to our doorstep, we should not resist, and die knowing we'll go to heaven? No, that is wrong. Yes, these quotes say we should not retaliate to terroristic threats or actions, but when a nation vows to destroy you and everything you stand for, that is taking things to another level. Simply backing down and accepting defeat to those who would destroy you, your religion, and your way of life is NOT a scriptural teaching. Would god want us to back down and be destroyed, with his teachings destroyed with his followers? No. He certainly does not want us to destroy the opposers the way they have vowed to destroy us, but if we must use force to create peace, then so be it.

So are you saying Christ's commandments only apply when the threat isnt "all that bad"?.

I would of course beg to differ, as I am a strong proponent of Christian Pacifism christ telling us to not draw swords, to turn our cheek's, to give our oponents "more" than they ask for, to reject an eye for an eye, to mimic him in his meekness and humility all are within the Context of Scripture indicative if not ourtright statements to shun violence in all it's forms, even when our lives are in danger.

You say "Would God want us to back down and be destroyed?" who are you(and yes even who am I) to say that he would not?
The Death of Billions of Christians could be a requirement, could be part of his plan it could be anything.

But you do not "ever" say an action is wrong, and proceed to perform it yourself, even if it is to stop the action you are decrying.
Christ was never a hypocryt, but he was meek and humble.

What I'm saying is that if destruction is brought to our doorstep, the primary function of all humans will override any preconceptions: Survival. And if killing one who would destroy you is a necessity to ensure your survival, then so be it.

Please do not think that I WANT bloodshed and fighting, because I can see how that could accidentally be interpreted by my post. Rather, I wish for peace, but I see the reality, that for self-preservation, war IS necessary. I truly wish it weren't, but it is a fact of life that nothing can be solved without some form of conflict.

I do ask if god would "Want us to back down and be destroyed." Even if the question was rhetorical, you are right in saying that you and I do not know and have no place in saying if he would or would not. There are several dilemmas like this one, where only god could answer. The death of billions COULD be apart of his plan, or it could not. But while we cannot know for sure, we still have to make a decision for ourselves as humans, using our own judgment. And as a human who has no possible way of telling the right answer except based on common sense, I would say that the preservation of self, and in this situation, god's people, is greater than the oppressor's desire to wipe out all that do not share their beliefs. Maybe a solution can be found through other means. But if it cannot, and force is the only solution, then force WILL be used. Maybe god intended it, maybe not. But with no way of knowing for sure, all we can do is act upon our own judgment, and wait until we die for God to either high five us for our awesomeness, or facepalm at out stupidity.

As for my last sentence, what I meant was that we should not actively seek out and destroy our oppressors as they are doing to us. What I am saying is that if they DO come to destroy us, we will retaliate in our defense until they stop, or they are unable to attack us any more.  

[Haha Coffee]

Gregar828

Dharma Sila

Gregar828

So what you're saying is, that if/when the muslim extremist world brings destruction to our doorstep, we should not resist, and die knowing we'll go to heaven? No, that is wrong. Yes, these quotes say we should not retaliate to terroristic threats or actions, but when a nation vows to destroy you and everything you stand for, that is taking things to another level. Simply backing down and accepting defeat to those who would destroy you, your religion, and your way of life is NOT a scriptural teaching. Would god want us to back down and be destroyed, with his teachings destroyed with his followers? No. He certainly does not want us to destroy the opposers the way they have vowed to destroy us, but if we must use force to create peace, then so be it.

So are you saying Christ's commandments only apply when the threat isnt "all that bad"?.

I would of course beg to differ, as I am a strong proponent of Christian Pacifism christ telling us to not draw swords, to turn our cheek's, to give our oponents "more" than they ask for, to reject an eye for an eye, to mimic him in his meekness and humility all are within the Context of Scripture indicative if not ourtright statements to shun violence in all it's forms, even when our lives are in danger.

You say "Would God want us to back down and be destroyed?" who are you(and yes even who am I) to say that he would not?
The Death of Billions of Christians could be a requirement, could be part of his plan it could be anything.

But you do not "ever" say an action is wrong, and proceed to perform it yourself, even if it is to stop the action you are decrying.
Christ was never a hypocryt, but he was meek and humble.

What I'm saying is that if destruction is brought to our doorstep, the primary function of all humans will override any preconceptions: Survival. And if killing one who would destroy you is a necessity to ensure your survival, then so be it.

Please do not think that I WANT bloodshed and fighting, because I can see how that could accidentally be interpreted by my post. Rather, I wish for peace, but I see the reality, that for self-preservation, war IS necessary. I truly wish it weren't, but it is a fact of life that nothing can be solved without some form of conflict.

I do ask if god would "Want us to back down and be destroyed." Even if the question was rhetorical, you are right in saying that you and I do not know and have no place in saying if he would or would not. There are several dilemmas like this one, where only god could answer. The death of billions COULD be apart of his plan, or it could not. But while we cannot know for sure, we still have to make a decision for ourselves as humans, using our own judgment. And as a human who has no possible way of telling the right answer except based on common sense, I would say that the preservation of self, and in this situation, god's people, is greater than the oppressor's desire to wipe out all that do not share their beliefs. Maybe a solution can be found through other means. But if it cannot, and force is the only solution, then force WILL be used. Maybe god intended it, maybe not. But with no way of knowing for sure, all we can do is act upon our own judgment, and wait until we die for God to either high five us for our awesomeness, or facepalm at out stupidity.

As for my last sentence, what I meant was that we should not actively seek out and destroy our oppressors as they are doing to us. What I am saying is that if they DO come to destroy us, we will retaliate in our defense until they stop, or they are unable to attack us any more.

Fine answer, as former Military I do realise the requirement to defend yourself, and as a average person If attacked I couldent say hand on heart, I wouldent just smash them in the face.

I was only speaking from the Halo like perfect Christian attitude, I really do believe that scripture and Christ both command complete non-violence, but I do realise that were not perfect and we will be violent but damnit ill still try to hit that goal.  

[Azkeel]

I've heard of a missionary that my friend knows that has been torchered for our faith. They poured hot oil on him. Greatest part was the muslims tourchering him later converted. Well one of them. While the oil was poured on him the heavens opened up and a hand was reaching down. And the muslim convert and the man he tourchered are now friends if memory serves me correct.

Our natural response may be to fight but if our Father doesn't want us to fight we will be held back. I know I have never lifted a hand and struck anyone even being jumped. I'm not condeming anyone that fights back but I am using scripture to show what we are to do.  

[Aleetheeuh]

Received this in an email:
MAN MURDERS WIFE, BURIES CHILDREN ALIVE (UNCLASSIFIED)



A Muslim man in Egypt killed his wife because she was reading the Bible and
then buried her with their infant baby and an 8-year old daughter. The girls
were buried alive! He then reported to the police that an uncle killed the
kids.

15 days later, another family member died.. When they went to bury him, they
found the 2 little girls under the sand - ALIVE! The country is outraged
over the incident, and the man will be executed. The older girl was asked
how she had survived and she says:- 'A man wearing shiny white clothes, with
bleeding wounds in his hands, came every day to feed us. He woke up my mom
so she could nurse my sister,'

She was interviewed on Egyptian national TV, by a veiled Muslim woman news
anchor. She said on public TV, 'This was none other than Jesus, because
nobody el does things like this!' Muslims believe Isa(Jesus) would do this,
but the wounds mean He really was crucified, and it's clear also that He is
alive!
But, it's also clear that the child could not make up a story like this, and
there is no way these children could have survived without a true miracle..
Muslim leaders are going to have a hard time to figure out what to do with
this, and the popularity of the Passion movie doesn't help! With Egypt at
the center of the media and education in the Middle East , you can be sure
this story will spread. Christ is still turning the world upside down!
Please let this story be shared. The Lord says, 'I will bless the person who
puts his trust in me. 'Jeremiah 17

Please forward to all on your list and God will reward you abundantly Mark
8:38 which says, 'Therefore whosoever shall be ashamed of Me and my Words in
this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man shall also be ashamed
of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels'.

Don't worry if those you have forwarded will respond or do anything with
this message, just fulfill your part and shake off your dust....!..

Jesus loves you...!