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 Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:25 pm
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Kyramud PawzPrint Cappie v2 Remember, there is no pure person on the face of the earth. We all have something we must work on. But to answer these questions, simply: God makes things so we can all learn. God knows that we all learn differently and are on different levels. It's having the fruit and knowledge!
Here is a scripture that confirms knowledge.
"...the love of Christ which passes knowledge" (Eph.3:19). See also John 3:16 I understand learning differently means having different methods of teaching us. So.....this leads me back to my question of, why are we (Christians) right and everyone else wrong? The only way I know of to answer that question is to really examine what you think the definition 'right and wrong' comes from. The idea of a moral compass is one that is ubiquitous throughout the world. Everyone has one. Why is that? For me, that comes from humans being a creation of the ultimate authority, that is God, who gave us an innate ability to know whether what we do is right or wrong. This might not be the case, but that is my belief. Ultimately there is no way to prove, concretely, that one belief system is right and everyone else is wrong. Beliefs cannot be proven or disproven. On the flip side, that's where faith comes in. After all, "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen." Heb. 11:1
Then I guess that leads me to ask, is that belief arrogant or intolerant? |
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:52 pm
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:40 pm
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PawzPrint Kyramud PawzPrint Cappie v2 Remember, there is no pure person on the face of the earth. We all have something we must work on. But to answer these questions, simply: God makes things so we can all learn. God knows that we all learn differently and are on different levels. It's having the fruit and knowledge!
Here is a scripture that confirms knowledge.
"...the love of Christ which passes knowledge" (Eph.3:19). See also John 3:16 I understand learning differently means having different methods of teaching us. So.....this leads me back to my question of, why are we (Christians) right and everyone else wrong? The only way I know of to answer that question is to really examine what you think the definition 'right and wrong' comes from. The idea of a moral compass is one that is ubiquitous throughout the world. Everyone has one. Why is that? For me, that comes from humans being a creation of the ultimate authority, that is God, who gave us an innate ability to know whether what we do is right or wrong. This might not be the case, but that is my belief. Ultimately there is no way to prove, concretely, that one belief system is right and everyone else is wrong. Beliefs cannot be proven or disproven. On the flip side, that's where faith comes in. After all, "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen." Heb. 11:1 Hmm, that makes a lot of sense. Then I guess that leads me to ask, is that belief arrogant or intolerant?
Arrogant? Maybe, depending on whom you go to. Most christians probably won't see it that way, but then again that's an opinion based question.
As for intolerant, definitely. The christian religion isn't tolerant at all, never has been. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:29 pm
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PawzPrint starry night-163 False, God can be proved and he cannot be disproved, the book of Romans makes that very clear, it's not that he can't be proved because he has and on top of that God has made it ovious for us, we just don't want to admit it. See Kryamud's post. He has been proved? Prove God to me then? starry night-163 I like him because he peaches what most pastors, people and professing Christians don't preach which is TRUTH! and I like that he yells because it shows just how serious and just how much he truly cares for people souls and Jesus, people need to be yelled at some times. The Lord actually used one of his videos to bring me to knowledge of salvation. And the video does answer your question, listen carefully to the first 1:27 seconds. People get fooled because that's what they want, anything but the truth. "most pastors and most professing Christians". Hmm. How do you know this? Do you go to multiple churches and listen to multitudes of professing Christians? How do you know that most Christians don't talk about the truth? You can like him all you want. He isn't for me to want to listen to. If Jesus used that guy in your spiritual walk with Him, then right on. God may not use that guy the same way in my life. And it turns out that I don't care to listen to him. I'm the one with the question and if I feel I don't have a satisfactory answer to it, then guess what? I declare my question unanswered.
PawzPrint He has been proved? Prove God to me then?
I don't have to God already did that. That's like saying prove to me that somebody made my house?
PawzPrint You can like him all you want. He isn't for me to want to listen to. If Jesus used that guy in your spiritual walk with Him, then right on. God may not use that guy the same way in my life. And it turns out that I don't care to listen to him. I'm the one with the question and if I feel I don't have a satisfactory answer to it, then guess what? I declare my question unanswered.
You don't got to be rud about it, I at least tried to help you. Like I said he preaches the bible, and he doesn't always screem, you can actually learn ALOT from watching videos of his sermons and stuff, they are very profitable to the soul. And you can't just declare a question unanswered just because you don't like the answer, that could be the answer(not saying it is), that's like saying "why did I get fired?" "well because you were lazy and did nothing." "I don't agree". And let me just say this as my final answer, THE BIBLE WAS NOT MEANT TO ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS, THE BIBLE WAS ONLY MEANT TO GIVE US KNOWLEDGE OF SALVATION(AND GOD) PERIOD! If you want answers do what I do and pray about it(God answers my questions when I pray about it and keep bugging him about it), and if you ask these question so you know whether Christianity is right for you then I guess your out of luck because that's faith, to put your trust in God. Repent of your sins(it's a continual thing) and trust in Jesus and be saved, reject Jesus and hold onto sin and persish.
Quote: Luke 11:5-135And he said to them, "Which of you who has a friend will go to him at midnight and say to him, 'Friend, lend me three loaves, 6for a friend of mine has arrived on a journey, and I have nothing to set before him'; 7and he will answer from within, 'Do not bother me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed. I cannot get up and give you anything'? 8I tell you, though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his impudence he will rise and give him whatever he needs. 9And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. 11What father among you, if his son asks for[d] a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; 12or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"[/quote] You can call my answer dumb if you like, but's that my answer, because I can't think of anything else to help you out here. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:38 pm
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Kyramud starry night-163 False, God can be proved and he cannot be disproved, the book of Romans makes that very clear, it's not that he can't be proved because he has and on top of that God has made it ovious for us, we just don't want to admit it. *sigh*Not quite. He cannot be disproved, you are correct, but the fact that something cannot be disproved is not evidence that serves to prove it exists. Also, quoting the bible only works for people who believe that the bible is true. If they don't believe that, well, you're out of luck. Quote: The dead sea scrolls are the oldest scripture we have which is written in greek can I get another *sigh* The dead sea scrolls are not the oldest scripture we have. True, they have scripture in them, but that's not all. There also are nonbiblical writings along the order of commentaries on the OT, paraphrases that expand on the Law, rule books of the community, war conduct, thanksgiving psalms, hymnic compositions, benedictions, liturgical texts, and other writings. Also, I don't know where you got greek from, but the Dead Sea Scrolls I know of were written in hebrew/aramaic... Maybe do a little research next time?
Doesn't matter if they don't believe the bible, the bible contains God's truth, your supposed to preach out of the bible, it's God's job to change their attitute/mind about it not yours, you do your job by preaching it, how else do you expect people to have faith/learn(about God) if you never preach out of it? And lol Sorry I had always heard it was written in greek and I went and researched a bit of it and found out it was wirtten in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek but the other non biblical writings you mentioned aren't quite trustworthy... well at least to me and I'm sure many other true Christians would agree with me. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:07 pm
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:33 pm
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:47 pm
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starry night-163 I don't have to God already did that. That's like saying prove to me that somebody made my house?
That's a false analogy. I asked for you to prove God to me, which can't be done. If we could prove God exists, then why would we need faith? I believe God can't be proved or disproved.
starry night-163 You don't got to be rud about it, I at least tried to help you.
starry night-163 And you can't just declare a question unanswered just because you don't like the answer, that could be the answer(not saying it is), that's like saying "why did I get fired?" "well because you were lazy and did nothing." "I don't agree".
starry night-163 And let me just say this as my final answer, THE BIBLE WAS NOT MEANT TO ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS, THE BIBLE WAS ONLY MEANT TO GIVE US KNOWLEDGE OF SALVATION(AND GOD) PERIOD!
starry night-163 If you want answers do what I do and pray about it(God answers my questions when I pray about it and keep bugging him about it),
And don't assume that I don't pray.
starry night-163 You can call my answer dumb if you like, but's that my answer, because I can't think of anything else to help you out here. |
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:50 pm
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Shadows-shine I'm not sure if my answer will provide much useful insight, but I was thinking about what C.S. Lewis had said in his book Mere Christianity. In ch. 6, I believe, it's called the Rival Conceptions about God (or some thing like that...it's been a while since I've looked at the book)..any ways, he was talking about how each religion, no matter how far out they seem contain atleast some hint of truth. So, I don't think it's right for Christians to walk around with the attitude that every one who has different beliefs than we do are ALL wrong or that we have it ALL right, because we don't know that, because we don't have absolute knowledge of all things. So therefore to have the attitude that we do have that knowledge isn't right.
Though, then I'm lead to ask, how do we know which parts are right and which parts are wrong? Is this were our faith in God comes into play? |
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:55 pm
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MaidenEirys Everybody's already said all the answers I could've possible thought of (and more) so... sweatdrop I just want to ask, why are you looking solid answers? I know it would be nice if we had them (I want the answers to them myself), but God has all the answers, not us. (I'm just going to talk about myself because I don't really know if everyone feels the same way I do but) I don't know if I'm right in following the path of God. I believe that I am. That's why faith is so important! Like in John 20:29 Quote: Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." I don't have definite proof that God exists, but I still believe in him! It's like that analogy bible teachers tell in Sunday School - we can't see the wind, and we can't see God. We can see the effects of wind, and we can see the effects of God. No one ever questions that wind exists. So why should we question God? 3nodding
To be honest, I am not quite sure what exactly I am looking for. I have analyzed what I believe, and I have found that I don't know why I believe what I do. There's a verse that says that we should be able to explain why we believe what we do for when someone does ask us.
And now, I feel like what I believe has been shaken up a bit and I am trying to get it all sorted out.
And thank you for your post; it has given me some things to think about. |
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:34 pm
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PawzPrint Shadows-shine I'm not sure if my answer will provide much useful insight, but I was thinking about what C.S. Lewis had said in his book Mere Christianity. In ch. 6, I believe, it's called the Rival Conceptions about God (or some thing like that...it's been a while since I've looked at the book)..any ways, he was talking about how each religion, no matter how far out they seem contain atleast some hint of truth. So, I don't think it's right for Christians to walk around with the attitude that every one who has different beliefs than we do are ALL wrong or that we have it ALL right, because we don't know that, because we don't have absolute knowledge of all things. So therefore to have the attitude that we do have that knowledge isn't right. That's an interesting idea. I do have Mere Christianity. I have tried reading it a few times but for some reason I found it hard to get through and so I ended up putting it down for periods of time. I might try reading it again. Though, then I'm lead to ask, how do we know which parts are right and which parts are wrong? Is this were our faith in God comes into play?
The only chapter I have read really in depth is chapter 6. It really helped clear some things up for me about religion.
Yes, I would say that's where our faith in God comes in, since faith is defined as the assurance of things hoped for or the evidence of things unseen. Sure we don't have absolute knowledge, but we don't have to. If we did, then faith, a principle of the gospel of Christ, would be void.
Since we have been given the standard of what is right and wrong from scripture, we use that knowledge and you can see the elements from other religions that fit into that. But I don't think we should assume that all other religions are all wrong compared to Christianity.
((I hope that made sense... sweatdrop )) |
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:32 pm
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:54 pm
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Pawz, let me say that I commend you for thinking this way, and even more so for bringing it up here. It shows that you think for yourself and you have the courage to say what you think, yet you will accept and maybe even incorporate the ideas of others. Those qualities are not found often in society, and even more rarely are they found together in the same person.
Onto your questions: The truth is, none of us could tell you definitively that God exists. We don't have any scientific proof of the existence of god (save for the fact that it HAS been proven that all humans were descended from one common mother, though that isn't proven to be linked to god, just the possibility of an Adam and an Eve), and most of our historical truth is based mostly on faith. We have just as much possibility of being wrong as a Hindu, Atheist, Jew, Muslim, or any other religion. And as humans, we cannot help but be curious about whether these religions might make some sense. But as humans, we all must make a choice on what to believe, and no matter how much evidence is produced, faith will always play a part in it. Personally, I chose Christianity because it made the most sense to me (I used to be a lot like you, and I did a lot of study into most major religions), I've actually spoken with god (I know, you're rolling your eyes thinking "not another one that believes something ludicrous like this." It is true, though if you wanted me to tell you why I'd prefer to do it through PM), and that it just felt right to choose it over other religions. And while I would hope you choose to accept Christianity, no one can make you choose what you believe other than yourself.
Is it arrogant? Maybe, yes. Is it arrogant to insist on a mathematical formula is correct when it has been proven correct. Considering it has been proven, not really. If it were not proven correct, yet someone still insisted it was correct, would they be arrogant? Maybe, yes. The end result justifies arrogance or wisdom, and because we cannot see an end result to religion until we're dead, it will always be perceived as arrogant to say that Christianity is correct.
As for god showing himself in different ways through other religions, that's actually an extremely interesting and plausible theory. Seeing as religion was created by humans, religion will have flaws. And many religions ARE quite similar (Norse and Greek, Babylonian and Egyptian, Jewish and Islamic, etc.), so maybe god did come to them, and they all interpreted his coming differently, and wrote it down differently. However, I personally believe that Christianity is right, mainly because we had the son of god himself come and preach it to us. You don't get much better of a translator than that.
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:47 pm
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PawzPrint Kyramud Arrogant? Maybe, depending on whom you go to. Most christians probably won't see it that way, but then again that's an opinion based question. As for intolerant, definitely. The christian religion isn't tolerant at all, never has been. Ah, I see. The more I think about it, the more I can understand that. Thank you for your posts, they have given me some help in my struggles.
heh, no problem. Just trying to help. biggrin
Just one more thing though, if you're looking for a good book to sort through some apologetics I'd suggest 'Know why you believe' by Paul E. Little. It's a great read, and helped me answer some of the questions I had. |
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:12 pm
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Shadows-shine PawzPrint Shadows-shine I'm not sure if my answer will provide much useful insight, but I was thinking about what C.S. Lewis had said in his book Mere Christianity. In ch. 6, I believe, it's called the Rival Conceptions about God (or some thing like that...it's been a while since I've looked at the book)..any ways, he was talking about how each religion, no matter how far out they seem contain atleast some hint of truth. So, I don't think it's right for Christians to walk around with the attitude that every one who has different beliefs than we do are ALL wrong or that we have it ALL right, because we don't know that, because we don't have absolute knowledge of all things. So therefore to have the attitude that we do have that knowledge isn't right. That's an interesting idea. I do have Mere Christianity. I have tried reading it a few times but for some reason I found it hard to get through and so I ended up putting it down for periods of time. I might try reading it again. Though, then I'm lead to ask, how do we know which parts are right and which parts are wrong? Is this were our faith in God comes into play? The only chapter I have read really in depth is chapter 6. It really helped clear some things up for me about religion. Yes, I would say that's where our faith in God comes in, since faith is defined as the assurance of things hoped for or the evidence of things unseen. Sure we don't have absolute knowledge, but we don't have to. If we did, then faith, a principle of the gospel of Christ, would be void. Since we have been given the standard of what is right and wrong from scripture, we use that knowledge and you can see the elements from other religions that fit into that. But I don't think we should assume that all other religions are all wrong compared to Christianity. ((I hope that made sense... sweatdrop )) |
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