Christianity Discussion

[V For V]

I think religion is great for people who need guidance. But I'm agnostic so eh.  

[Rain And Roses]

ampedVAMP

Here's a question I pose: Adam and Eve had sex and had children and that. But, if Adam and Eve were the first two people on Earth, their children came next. Then, this means that in order to populate the Earth, they would have to have sex with each other. Oh, wait a second, slight problem there: incest is a sin. So, is the human race damned as they populate Earth because of Adam and Eve's children and a mistake God made, or is the bible a fake? And another question: Who wrote the Bible? I find holes in things to disprove them, and this right here is a master question that can be unanswered. And many of the books were written around 2nd-3rd century A.D. This means they were written AFTER JESUS DIED. There were books written before he died, but the vast majority were written after. I personally think it was just some person wrote it, someone else read it, they passed it off as 'mysteriously appearing to them', two or three people believed them, they spread it round, some nut comes along thinks he's the savior mentioned, another and so on till we find the person everyone passes off to be Jesus. There isn't the SLIGHTEST evidence to prove that ANYTHING in the Bible is true except they found a large crucifix and about twenty meters away they found an old plaque that read 'King of Jews' in...whatever the Romans spoke. But that wasn't even on the hill where Jesus was supposedly crucified! If you could point me in the direction of proof, I'll follow God gladly. But if you say anything about me needing to be saved or I'll be damned to hell because this is blasphemy, you'll be ignored at first and if you persist I'll just report you. I need subsrantial evidence that this 'Divine Being' is real and it wasn't just some crazy idiot who thought this was all true and some crazy idiots believed him and so on and so forth until you get to today where Christianity is the largest religion worldwide.

You want questions answered, I'll do my best.
First, you say Adam and Eve's offspring had incest. Today, thats a legitimate moral problem, but back then, it wasn't. The earth needed to be populated, so it was neccesary. Besides, the first God inspired law code wasn't written until Moses' time, long after Adam. (The same thing happened to Noah and his family later on when they repopulated the earth.)
Second question, "who wrote the bible?" Well, besides it being the actual word of God, many people wrote it down. David, Solomon (both kings), Paul, Moses, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc... Many people who wrote the New Testament actually knew Jesus personally, they followed him. The book of John was written by one of Jesus' closest friends. (Awesome book by the way, everyone should read it first).
This is only the beginning. I'm sorry but; "Nothing in the bible can be proven" was an ignorant statement. Actually, I've never heard about the crucifix found, or the plaque and I wouldn't trust those rumors anyway. Despite the enormous mountains of archeological evidence of cities, locations, hitorical figures, historical records, and primary sources, I can prove that Jesus was the Son of God. First, while almost all historians believe Jesus walked this Earth, they don't all agree that he was who he said he was. Some call him a moral teacher, or a prophet, or some crazy revolutionary. If he was a moral teacher, but said he was the Son of God, he would be a liar. How can you be a great moral teacher, and be a liar? Second, if he was a lunatic, where is the evidence. All his emotions were valid. When his friend Lazarus died, he was sad, When he knew he was going to die, he cried, when the religious leaders of the time tried to trick him into condemning, all his emotions were right on track - he was not crazy. Finally the only other option is Lord. He said he was God, and He is!
If God is a crazy idiot, and his followers are crazy idiots, then you can call me a crazy idiot too.  

[Cornelius loh Quatious]

You make a great deal of assumptions in your arguments, without a great deal of specifics to back up your opinions.

Saphire_Storm

First, you say Adam and Eve's offspring had incest. Today, thats a legitimate moral problem, but back then, it wasn't. The earth needed to be populated, so it was neccesary. Besides, the first God inspired law code wasn't written until Moses' time, long after Adam. (The same thing happened to Noah and his family later on when they repopulated the earth.)

Firstly, I don't doubt that it may have been okay for Adam and Eve's kids to have incest because it was necessary to populate the Earth, but it's an impossiblity for the entire human population to have sprung from two people, even with incest. Eventually, we'd all become genetic clones of each other, and would become wiped out by a single vunerablity. The same effect has been documented among many endangered species, such as the elephant seal.

Saphire_Storm

Second question, "who wrote the bible?" Well, besides it being the actual word of God, many people wrote it down. David, Solomon (both kings), Paul, Moses, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc... Many people who wrote the New Testament actually knew Jesus personally, they followed him. The book of John was written by one of Jesus' closest friends. (Awesome book by the way, everyone should read it first).

Well, this is all under the assumption that God exists, which is a rather hefty assumption on it's own. In any case, even if the words were spoken from the big G himself, every version of the bible is different from another, which begs the question, which is the real deal? Obviously, it's been transcribed and translated so many times that the original manuscript (whoever wrote it) has been lost to the sands of time.

Saphire_Storm

This is only the beginning. I'm sorry but; "Nothing in the bible can be proven" was an ignorant statement. Actually, I've never heard about the crucifix found, or the plaque and I wouldn't trust those rumors anyway. Despite the enormous mountains of archeological evidence of cities, locations, hitorical figures, historical records, and primary sources, I can prove that Jesus was the Son of God. First, while almost all historians believe Jesus walked this Earth, they don't all agree that he was who he said he was. Some call him a moral teacher, or a prophet, or some crazy revolutionary. If he was a moral teacher, but said he was the Son of God, he would be a liar. How can you be a great moral teacher, and be a liar? Second, if he was a lunatic, where is the evidence. All his emotions were valid. When his friend Lazarus died, he was sad, When he knew he was going to die, he cried, when the religious leaders of the time tried to trick him into condemning, all his emotions were right on track - he was not crazy. Finally the only other option is Lord. He said he was God, and He is!
If God is a crazy idiot, and his followers are crazy idiots, then you can call me a crazy idiot too.

Okay, where to even start.

Nothing in the Bible can be proven. This is true if only for the fact that nothing in documented history can be proven, since we don't have time machines to go back and see what really happened. Even "primary sources" (meaning that they come from the time period under question) are colored by the original author's personal biases, opinions, and psyche. Therefore, we can only make our best guess of what happened in the past from artifacts and fossils of the past.

Also, there are plenty of cases where the "history" described in the bible contradicts what modern science and archaeology has discovered about that era of history. link
The debate rages on, but in the end there's really no way to prove which is more accurate.

Also, you assume that Jesus only could have been a moral teacher, a prophet, or a lunatic. It is possible that he gathered a large following a people while being very sane of mind, and not a moral teacher at all. Even if he was, that doesn't mean that he could not have possibly lied or was mistaken for believing himself the child of divinity.
Simply because somebody displays emotions correctly doesn't make them sane, there are many people with mental illnesses that react emotionally similar to the sane.

In short, there is NO way of proving that Jesus was the son of a god unless you first had a sample of Jesus' DNA and a sample of the god in question.

I'm not asserting that you were wrong on any of these principles, only that your argument needs a much more solid base than what you have. Accept the fact that you cannot prove nor disprove the existence of divinity of any kind, as is the nature of the supernatural.  

[Lus-cloud]

May say just one thing. If you go on and quote the bible. It says a lot of things, like dont judge then turns around and says some judging thing.

Good and evil are just words people use to say what is right in reality, Right and wrong are also worsd people use too. Its socities way to you a conformest and if your not you are deemed as evil. Or Other names like this.

Lu'

Before i leave i ask you one thing. Why is it that people cling to a belief and then, when it gets to much for them, they run from it?