Why the big Deal?

[Ashon_Superior]

wow this is my longest going thread!
Anyway though my original point was peoples reaction to others sexuality, though it's interesting to also see how people are affected by religion.
Maybe i'll start another thread on that...
oh and i fixed my sig so now it will actually send you to my store not your own like it was b4! 4laugh  

[teh sexiful nerdy]

I believe that homosexuality is a mental disease and a sin.

that being said, I don't have anything personal against homosexuals as people. They can be nice people, they can be mean people. That's all choices.

however, I do beleive that you cannot be homosexual and be christian. The bible states that homosexuality is wrong (Leviticus). In fact, the commandment that is against adultery includes relations with someone who is not your spouse, and fornication with someone to whom you are not married. And, since according to the bible marriage is for a man and a woman, homosexuality is automatically wrong.

oh and BTW The Old Testament is indeed part of the christian bible because while it was written down by Jewish people, it was written by God, through visions in which he told those men what he wanted them to write.

And please, don't call yourself a christian is you're going to insist on using that language and promoting the view that marriage is for homosexuals.

Marriage is also only existing to create children. Procreation is the goal of humanity and no where in the bible does it tell otherwise. Also, EVERY child needs a father and a mother who are directly present in their life. No, an effeminate man or a manly woman is not good enough, Because of the way men and women are hard wired, there are specific needs which are filled by the mother and by the father which cannot be fullfilled by someone of the other gender. Along with this, i believe not in Divorce. But that is for another time.  

[Awiergan Resurrection]

I do not believe in sexuality.

I believe that anyone can potentially be attracted to any gender, though some people have a strong preference to a certain gender.

I personally am attracted to females more than males.

Similarly, I am attracted to red-heads more than brunettes.

Neither of these is sexuality. They are simply preference.  

[YukaSilkenFur]

teh sexiful nerdy

I believe that homosexuality is a mental disease and a sin.

that being said, I don't have anything personal against homosexuals as people. They can be nice people, they can be mean people. That's all choices.

however, I do beleive that you cannot be homosexual and be christian. The bible states that homosexuality is wrong (Leviticus). In fact, the commandment that is against adultery includes relations with someone who is not your spouse, and fornication with someone to whom you are not married. And, since according to the bible marriage is for a man and a woman, homosexuality is automatically wrong.

oh and BTW The Old Testament is indeed part of the christian bible because while it was written down by Jewish people, it was written by God, through visions in which he told those men what he wanted them to write.

And please, don't call yourself a christian is you're going to insist on using that language and promoting the view that marriage is for homosexuals.

Marriage is also only existing to create children. Procreation is the goal of humanity and no where in the bible does it tell otherwise. Also, EVERY child needs a father and a mother who are directly present in their life. No, an effeminate man or a manly woman is not good enough, Because of the way men and women are hard wired, there are specific needs which are filled by the mother and by the father which cannot be fullfilled by someone of the other gender. Along with this, i believe not in Divorce. But that is for another time.

Well, you seem to be fairly prominent in the guild, so if I get kicked out for this, then I get kicked out. More incentive to quit Gaia I guess.

Anyways, I'm rather greatly offended by this. I happen to be bi, and I feel that when it comes down to it, it really has nothing to do with sex. It's all an ability to love. You can love anyone, the question is, will the difference in body structure affect the capacity for your love of that person. And love is NEVER a sin. I don't care what religion you are.
As for the marriage thing, this is why we have seperation of church and state. Christian beliefs should not affect the right for ANYONE to get married (I'm not talking ***** relationships here however) and that goes for ANY religion. And even if any religion is able to do such, it really shouldn't matter. As far as I'm concerned, marriage is just a ceremony, and since it seems to be mostly a confirmation from a god or gods for whatever religion--that may not actually even care that you're doing this if they are even paying attention--I don't see why it should be seen as wrong for any man-man or woman-woman couple to be together without marriage if OTHER HUMANS deny them the right to such a ceremony. (In that respect, straight people are only hurting themselves anyways, since gay couples, by not getting married, are avoiding certain taxes that straight married couples have to pay.)

The bible writing thing, I am so sick of hearing. The key thing is that HUMANS wrote the Bible, EVERY part of it, whether they claim God came to them or just got bored. The point is, humans are by no means without flaws, and are also rather notorious for lies, distortions of the truth, and even mental instability, all of which could account for a good part if not all of the Bible. I do not, and never will, believe the Bible is the word of any God, taken word for word, without flaw, if such tales came from the spiritual tongue of any god ever.

I do agree that someone cannot really call themselves Christian if they are gay or bi, just because this seems to be a case of conflicting beliefs and thus leads to hypocrisy.

Marriage is a commitment, an acknowledgement generally made to some higher power that you indeed love and cherish the person you now stand beside, or at least intend to remain faithfully by over the years. (At least, this used to be the case.) It isn't a claim of "I mean to have children with this person." Procreation may be the goal of humanity, but it was not what they were made for--they lost sight of that long ago--and frankly, I think humans have "procreated" enough for many many lifetimes and they might want to slow it down a bit and look at the things that are REALLY important in life. As for every child needing both a mother and a father figure, that can be debated. I never had a father, and I had a barely competent mother, but I managed. It all comes down to the endurance and strength of your soul and personality. And besides, with as hard as gay couples have to work to get married and adopt, I think they would likely cherish such rights a lot more than those who hold them now. I believe children of most homosexual couples will actually live much stabler lives, since--in my experience--homosexuals understand adversity and do not seek to constantly put down and correct their kids for who they, but rather accept them and help them to adjust properly to the world around them. In most, as I said, they will be so grateful to have a child at all that they will cherish them more than most parents do these days; most of these children will not be neglected, scorned, abused. Frankly, I wish MY parents had been homosexual.

Complain, yell, get me banned from the guild if you wish. But from where I stand, what I've just stated makes a lot more sense than the hateful religious prejudice you've just spewed.  

[Hanku Royiaki]

You can like it or not, I'm Christian. I just don't agree with some of its teachings. Homosexuality is automatically wrong in the Christian view. I'm not promoting gay marriage. I'm saying I don't have a problem with it. Also, Jewish God=jerk. Christian God=kind and forgiving. Written by God? l-o-friggin-l. Two different religions = two different faiths. You can't avoid it, the first Bible came from the Jews! The Christians ADDED to that bible and f*ck it up from time to time. Two different faiths with two different opinions of how God is. I don't care if it's THE Bible. There's two religions in it!!! HI-larious!!

NO!!! NO MORE!!! We need to move this thread to somewhere else! This doesn't belong in General Discussion!

ASHON move this if you can and for future reference: we have subforums for these kind of discussions! Please follow the rules better.  

[tsukasa_the_quiet]

Honestly, I could care less about sexuality, some of the best people I know happen to be gay, bi, or whatever else there is that I don't want to know about.

Also, relgion can choke on one when it comes to homosexuality, it's such a bullshit excuse for why it's "wrong"  

[angel_half82]

Hanku Royiaki

You can like it or not, I'm Christian. I just don't agree with some of its teachings. Homosexuality is automatically wrong in the Christian view. I'm not promoting gay marriage. I'm saying I don't have a problem with it. Also, Jewish God=jerk. Christian God=kind and forgiving. Written by God? l-o-friggin-l. Two different religions = two different faiths. You can't avoid it, the first Bible came from the Jews! The Christians ADDED to that bible and f*ck it up from time to time. Two different faiths with two different opinions of how God is. I don't care if it's THE Bible. There's two religions in it!!! HI-larious!!

NO!!! NO MORE!!! We need to move this thread to somewhere else! This doesn't belong in General Discussion!

ASHON move this if you can and for future reference: we have subforums for these kind of discussions! Please follow the rules better.

If it bothers you so much then PM a mod quit posting the same thing in Ashon's threads. That is trolling which is against the rules.  

[Hanku Royiaki]

Yeah, and so is fighting on the forums. I've already PM'd the mods so we can put these kind of topics in a more appropriate place.  

[angel_half82]

Hanku Royiaki

Yeah, and so is fighting on the forums. I've already PM'd the mods so we can put these kind of topics in a more appropriate place.

There is a difference between fighting and debating.

The only place to put topics like these would be extended discussion.  

[Awiergan Resurrection]

Hanku Royiaki

Yeah, and so is fighting on the forums. I've already PM'd the mods so we can put these kind of topics in a more appropriate place.

Dude, shut the ******** up with your mini-modding. You aren't a mod, and if you keep this s**t up, you probably never will be.

There's no rule against fighting/arguing/debating on the forums. If there was, I wouldn't be a member here. Trolling and flaming are against the rules, NOT heated discussion.

Even if this topic were in the wrong place, it gives you no right to impede discussion NOW. There's nothing wrong with discussing something just because it is or isn't in the wrong place.

Feel free to report stuff to the mods, but you're out of place to announce when you're reporting something.  

[Iconised Ghost]

teh sexiful nerdy

I believe that homosexuality is a mental disease and a sin.

I cant believe you said that. After all the fighting to get it taken out of the DSM, and all the campaigning for the right not to be "treated" for your sexuality, that statement sickens me. The way that homosexuals were treated when it was believed that they were mentally ill is grotesque. There is no "cure", because there is no "illness". That statement sets psychology back 34 years

teh sexiful nerdy

Marriage is also only existing to create children. Procreation is the goal of humanity and no where in the bible does it tell otherwise. Also, EVERY child needs a father and a mother who are directly present in their life. No, an effeminate man or a manly woman is not good enough, Because of the way men and women are hard wired, there are specific needs which are filled by the mother and by the father which cannot be fullfilled by someone of the other gender.

There have been plenty of studies and thousands of children who grow up in single parent families, or with same sex "parents" and who are perfectly healthy and happy adults 3nodding i disagree that men and women are "hard wired" differently, neurologists have proven that, against popular belief, there is very little difference biological between the brains of men and women. More importantly, it seems to be the environment in which the brains are tested and in which they grow up.  

[tsukasa_the_quiet]

Iconised Ghost

teh sexiful nerdy

I believe that homosexuality is a mental disease and a sin.

I cant believe you said that. After all the fighting to get it taken out of the DSM, and all the campaigning for the right not to be "treated" for your sexuality, that statement sickens me. The way that homosexuals were treated when it was believed that they were mentally ill is grotesque. There is no "cure", because there is no "illness". That statement sets psychology back 34 years

teh sexiful nerdy

Marriage is also only existing to create children. Procreation is the goal of humanity and no where in the bible does it tell otherwise. Also, EVERY child needs a father and a mother who are directly present in their life. No, an effeminate man or a manly woman is not good enough, Because of the way men and women are hard wired, there are specific needs which are filled by the mother and by the father which cannot be fullfilled by someone of the other gender.

There have been plenty of studies and thousands of children who grow up in single parent families, or with same sex "parents" and who are perfectly healthy and happy adults 3nodding i disagree that men and women are "hard wired" differently, neurologists have proven that, against popular belief, there is very little difference biological between the brains of men and women. More importantly, it seems to be the environment in which the brains are tested and in which they grow up.I pretty much have to agree with you on everything, but also, I thought of something while reading the second of the paragraphs that you quoted. I find it funny that "Marriage is only existing to creat children" when there are married couples out there than never have children for various reasons, so would that mean that their marriage doesn't actually exist?

Also, what about animals. They procreate as well, so do we say that they get married to each other because they make babies?

Of course, that is taking it to an extreme, but I think my point is understood.  

[Iconised Ghost]

[Tsukasa567]

Iconised Ghost

teh sexiful nerdy

I believe that homosexuality is a mental disease and a sin.

I cant believe you said that. After all the fighting to get it taken out of the DSM, and all the campaigning for the right not to be "treated" for your sexuality, that statement sickens me. The way that homosexuals were treated when it was believed that they were mentally ill is grotesque. There is no "cure", because there is no "illness". That statement sets psychology back 34 years

teh sexiful nerdy

Marriage is also only existing to create children. Procreation is the goal of humanity and no where in the bible does it tell otherwise. Also, EVERY child needs a father and a mother who are directly present in their life. No, an effeminate man or a manly woman is not good enough, Because of the way men and women are hard wired, there are specific needs which are filled by the mother and by the father which cannot be fullfilled by someone of the other gender.

There have been plenty of studies and thousands of children who grow up in single parent families, or with same sex "parents" and who are perfectly healthy and happy adults 3nodding i disagree that men and women are "hard wired" differently, neurologists have proven that, against popular belief, there is very little difference biological between the brains of men and women. More importantly, it seems to be the environment in which the brains are tested and in which they grow up.

I pretty much have to agree with you on everything, but also, I thought of something while reading the second of the paragraphs that you quoted. I find it funny that "Marriage is only existing to creat children" when there are married couples out there than never have children for various reasons, so would that mean that their marriage doesn't actually exist?

Also, what about animals. They procreate as well, so do we say that they get married to each other because they make babies?

Of course, that is taking it to an extreme, but I think my point is understood.

I think, but i could be wrong, that under the christian faith animals do not have immortal souls, so cannot be damned (but also cannot go to heaven). So it doesnt matter if they marry or not xp

But it is interesting. Should infertile people never get married? Should people who are married and become infertile then divorce? Should people stop being married after going through menopause??  

[Awiergan Resurrection]

teh sexiful nerdy

I believe that homosexuality is a mental disease and a sin.

I knew something was bugging me about this statement, but I couldn't figure out what it was. Perhaps because I haven't read the bible in quite a while.

But I do remember a good bit of it.

1st Corinthians 10:13: No temptation has seized you except what is common to man.

Sin is a product of temptation.
Now I assume you know what this verse means. "Mental Diseases" are not as sin, because not EVERYONE has them. Temptation affects us all. I've been tempted to break every one of the commandments at some point, and I imagine you have to.

Here's where we run into a problem: I've been tempted by homosexuality. I've been attracted to other men. Yet I am not homosexual. I do not have a mental disease. I am able to resist the temptation.

You see, you've created a logical fallacy.

If all sins are common to man, which is true according to the bible, AND all homosexuality is a sin, AND homosexuality was a mental disease, as you say, then the following MUST be true:

1. Everyone is homosexual.
2. Everyone has a mental disease.

Unfortunately for you, these are NOT true. This means that EITHER homosexuality is NOT a sin, or homosexuality is NOT a mental disease.

Some Christians think it may very well be a sin, which is why it's NOT a mental disease. (On a side note I personally lean in this direction, though I tend to avoid this argument altogether, as it does not coincide completely with my beliefs. )

Other Christians believe that it is NOT a sin, NOR a mental disease.

Some people believe it's NOT a sin, but is a mental disease.

Only the ignorant believe that it is BOTH a sin AND a mental disease, because the two are exclusive of each other. The categories "sin" and "mental disease" cannot overlap, at all, according to the cited verse.  

[Iconised Ghost]

Awiergan Resurrection

teh sexiful nerdy

I believe that homosexuality is a mental disease and a sin.

I knew something was bugging me about this statement, but I couldn't figure out what it was. Perhaps because I haven't read the bible in quite a while.

But I do remember a good bit of it.

1st Corinthians 10:13: No temptation has seized you except what is common to man.

Sin is a product of temptation.
Now I assume you know what this verse means. "Mental Diseases" are not as sin, because not EVERYONE has them. Temptation affects us all. I've been tempted to break every one of the commandments at some point, and I imagine you have to.

Here's where we run into a problem: I've been tempted by homosexuality. I've been attracted to other men. Yet I am not homosexual. I do not have a mental disease. I am able to resist the temptation.

You see, you've created a logical fallacy.

If all sins are common to man, which is true according to the bible, AND all homosexuality is a sin, AND homosexuality was a mental disease, as you say, then the following MUST be true:

1. Everyone is homosexual.
2. Everyone has a mental disease.

Unfortunately for you, these are NOT true. This means that EITHER homosexuality is NOT a sin, or homosexuality is NOT a mental disease.

I personally think it may very well be a sin, which is why I believe it's NOT a mental disease.

Many Christians believe that it is NOT a sin, NOR a mental disease.

Some people believe it's NOT a sin, but is a mental disease.

Only the ignorant believe that it is BOTH a sin AND a mental disease, because the two are exclusive of each other. The categories "sin" and "mental disease" cannot overlap, at all, according to the cited verse.

and to throw something else into the mix, some people dont believe in mental illnesses either. The medical model of psychosis is a faulty one indeed