Sex and gender in Heaven

[Rednal]

And then you get into the whole debate on beauty being in the eye of the beholder, and what the definition of 'perfect' is, and whether it's true or not that the ultimate idea of heaven is going to turn out to be an alteration to the laws of physics ("A new Heaven and a new Earth", if I recall right, had the implied "stars, planets, etc." meaning for Heaven, as in the heavens above, not golden gates and harps and clouds), and... yeah, there's a lot of room for thought on that one. Even if you can get people to agree on one thing, you have to work on all the other definitions...  

[Shadows-shine]

Whose perception of perfect and beauty are you talking about? The flawed human perception or God's perception?  

[Azkeel]

Shadows-shine

Azkeel

1 Corinthians CH.15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; niether doth corruption inherit incorruption.

(And if you're seriously worried about marriage and sex in the kingdom of God you may want to start worring about more serious subjects)

Marriage is when two become one flesh. And once you die that bond is broken automatically. "Till death do us part" Thus people may remarry after their partner dies. And there will not be marriage in the Kingdom of God. So if by the act of the flesh dying frees us from the bond of marriage and we are no longer given in marriage in the Kingdom of God then there is no marriage.

As for male/female. You may be giving too much power to the flesh and not the spirit. We were made in God's image. Isn't God known as the invisible God in the Testament of Old? Think image as something hmmm perhaps what seperates us from the beasts? And the silly debate on God's sex just wow. Think characteristics? The character of a father figure.

Stop thinking as the world and think of matters in a spiritual sense.

That verse in 1 Corinthians has nothing to do with marriage. It's an analogy that Paul is making. He is known for doing that quite frequently.

Marriage is when two become one, yes, but the Bible also says that whatever God joins let no man put asunder. It also teaches that love is eternal. So why would a small thing like death of the physical body make a marriage void? I never said "til death do us part" in my wedding vows. I don't agree with that line, especially since Christ taught that if you marry some one else it's adultery. (Can't remember the verse off the top of my head.)

No longer given in marriage means no one will be getting married, but that in no way addresses those who are already married. There is no verse in the Bible that says there is no marriage in Heaven and that your marriage ends at the death of the physical body. So I don't know how thinking about if there is marriage in Heaven or not is worrying about "worldly matters", but I know there will be. My husband will be my spouse after we die.

As for God being invisible, I don't think that's meant to be taken as literal. God was only described as being invisible because no one could physically see Him at the time. We still don't physically see Him, because we are not worthy to be in His presence at the present time.

And what would the benifit of "Marriage" be in the Kingdom of God? It is a worldly view to think you need to be married. Love is eternal yes. But you seem to be confusing the kind of love. Should you not love everyone? If you only love the one you're married to that is a corrupt love and is more of a passion. If you need your husband as a spouse after you die then you are in need of a crutch? Why can't you enter into the Kingdom without him? Marriage is of the flesh. And whatever God joins let no man put asunder. Yeah well God's the one ripping you apart at death. How can you be one in the flesh less you are half dead? Even the law of Moses once you die you are no longer under the law. And pray tell me what happens if one of you don't make it to the Kingdom? Are you to be sad and look back? Make God truely first in your life and understand you can be alone and broken and still produce the fruits of the spirit!

I'm actually curious as to why you would even want marriage in the Kingdom of God?  

[Shadows-shine]

Azkeel

And what would the benifit of "Marriage" be in the Kingdom of God?

Well to name one, I will get to enjoy the benefit of enjoying a relationship with my husband that I have worked my whole mortal life to have and make work.

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It is a worldly view to think you need to be married.

Marriage is ordained of God and it was instituted by God. How could it be worldly if God was the one who was made it so?

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Love is eternal yes. But you seem to be confusing the kind of love. Should you not love everyone? If you only love the one you're married to that is a corrupt love and is more of a passion.

Clearly you do not understand how love works within marriage or any where else in life. My love for my spouse is more than passion. I do love every one, but on different levels. I don't love my kids in the same way I love my husband, just like I don't love my neighbours in the same manner I love my kids.

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If you need your husband as a spouse after you die then you are in need of a crutch?

How is my husband a crutch to me after I die? He isn't a crutch to me now. He won't be after the death of the physical body.

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Why can't you enter into the Kingdom without him?

The Bible says that you are supposed to cling to your husband or wife and that the man is neither without the woman nor the woman without the man.

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Marriage is of the flesh.

No, it's not. If it was, God would have condemned it from the start and would not have ordained it.

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And whatever God joins let no man put asunder. Yeah well God's the one ripping you apart at death.

Where does the Bible say that God is going to end my marriage at death?

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How can you be one in the flesh less you are half dead?

Half dead? My body is just dead, not my spirit. At the resurrection my spirit and body will be reunited again, all things are restored, so I am still one flesh with my husband. When you are married you are united deeper than on the physical level. You connect in your spirit as well.

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Even the law of Moses once you die you are no longer under the law.

That's the law of Moses! It was never meant to be an eternal law. Marriage was meant to be eternal!

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And pray tell me what happens if one of you don't make it to the Kingdom? Are you to be sad and look back?

Do I know what's going to happen if I don't? No, but does any one but God Himself? Do I know who is going to Heaven and who is not? No, but does any one know but God Himself? So your question holds no bounds.

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Make God truely first in your life and understand you can be alone and broken and still produce the fruits of the spirit!

I know that. God is first in my life, but my husband comes second and then my kids, then every thing else. As it should be.

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I'm actually curious as to why you would even want marriage in the Kingdom of God?

I stated a reason why at the beginning of this post. How unjust would it be of God to let one have a companion, whom they loved, were devoted to, bonded with, etc. in their mortal life, and then have all that ripped away at death. Then the resurrection comes, the person is in Heaven, memories of their mortal life still in their mind, they see the person that was once their spouse, but they can't share those feelings they once had with that person because they are only indifferent acquaintances. How sad and depressing and not to mention unjust of God. That would be a small piece of hell in some place that was supposed to be heaven and happiness.  

[Kyramud]

Shadows-shine

Azkeel

And what would the benifit of "Marriage" be in the Kingdom of God?

Well to name one, I will get to enjoy the benefit of enjoying a relationship with my husband that I have worked my whole mortal life to have and make work.

Quote:

It is a worldly view to think you need to be married.

Marriage is ordained of God and it was instituted by God. How could it be worldly if God was the one who was made it so?

Quote:

Love is eternal yes. But you seem to be confusing the kind of love. Should you not love everyone? If you only love the one you're married to that is a corrupt love and is more of a passion.

Clearly you do not understand how love works within marriage or any where else in life. My love for my spouse is more than passion. I do love every one, but on different levels. I don't love my kids in the same way I love my husband, just like I don't love my neighbours in the same manner I love my kids.

Quote:

If you need your husband as a spouse after you die then you are in need of a crutch?

How is my husband a crutch to me after I die? He isn't a crutch to me now. He won't be after the death of the physical body.

Quote:

Why can't you enter into the Kingdom without him?

The Bible says that you are supposed to cling to your husband or wife and that the man is neither without the woman nor the woman without the man.

Quote:

Marriage is of the flesh.

No, it's not. If it was, God would have condemned it from the start and would not have ordained it.

Quote:

And whatever God joins let no man put asunder. Yeah well God's the one ripping you apart at death.

Where does the Bible say that God is going to end my marriage at death?

Quote:

How can you be one in the flesh less you are half dead?

Half dead? My body is just dead, not my spirit. At the resurrection my spirit and body will be reunited again, all things are restored, so I am still one flesh with my husband. When you are married you are united deeper than on the physical level. You connect in your spirit as well.

Quote:

Even the law of Moses once you die you are no longer under the law.

That's the law of Moses! It was never meant to be an eternal law. Marriage was meant to be eternal!

Quote:

And pray tell me what happens if one of you don't make it to the Kingdom? Are you to be sad and look back?

Do I know what's going to happen if I don't? No, but does any one but God Himself? Do I know who is going to Heaven and who is not? No, but does any one know but God Himself? So your question holds no bounds.

Quote:

Make God truely first in your life and understand you can be alone and broken and still produce the fruits of the spirit!

I know that. God is first in my life, but my husband comes second and then my kids, then every thing else. As it should be.

Quote:

I'm actually curious as to why you would even want marriage in the Kingdom of God?

I stated a reason why at the beginning of this post. How unjust would it be of God to let one have a companion, whom they loved, were devoted to, bonded with, etc. in their mortal life, and then have all that ripped away at death. Then the resurrection comes, the person is in Heaven, memories of their mortal life still in their mind, they see the person that was once their spouse, but they can't share those feelings they once had with that person because they are only indifferent acquaintances. How sad and depressing and not to mention unjust of God. That would be a small piece of hell in some place that was supposed to be heaven and happiness.

Sad, depressing, and unjust according to whom? Flawed, human perception, or God's perfect will?  

[Shadows-shine]

Kyramud

Sad, depressing, and unjust according to whom? Flawed, human perception, or God's perfect will?

God's perfect will.

And we have totally derailed this thread... being as it was originally about whether or not we have a gender in Heaven...so I will not continue this debate any more. If you want to continue a debate with me about marriage in Heaven feel free to PM me.  

[Azkeel]

Shadows-shine

Kyramud

Sad, depressing, and unjust according to whom? Flawed, human perception, or God's perfect will?

God's perfect will.

And we have totally derailed this thread... being as it was originally about whether or not we have a gender in Heaven...so I will not continue this debate any more. If you want to continue a debate with me about marriage in Heaven feel free to PM me.

So you're to say I don't understand love in any part of this life then cut off the debate?Who promised you marriage in the Kingdom of Heaven anyways?  

[T e m p e s t__X V]

Azkeel

Shadows-shine

Kyramud

Sad, depressing, and unjust according to whom? Flawed, human perception, or God's perfect will?

God's perfect will.

And we have totally derailed this thread... being as it was originally about whether or not we have a gender in Heaven...so I will not continue this debate any more. If you want to continue a debate with me about marriage in Heaven feel free to PM me.

So you're to say I don't understand love in any part of this life then cut off the debate?Who promised you marriage in the Kingdom of Heaven anyways?

Hey! Can we stop fighting and accusing, please? She never said you didn't understand love, and she didn't leave. She clearly said that you could PM her if you want to talk more. Don't be so accusing: just because no one swore to her she'd have marriage in Heaven, doesn't mean she won't. She's interpeting the will of God and taking things on faith. Isn't that how you're supposed to do things with God -- on faith? He doesn't say some things outright for a reason, and He admires your faithfulness.

She is correct about the topic, though, and was only trying to be courteuous to the creator of this thread. Fighting only draws us farther from God. If you're really concerned, pray about it.  

[Azkeel]

T e m p e s t__X V

Azkeel

Shadows-shine

Kyramud

Sad, depressing, and unjust according to whom? Flawed, human perception, or God's perfect will?

God's perfect will.

And we have totally derailed this thread... being as it was originally about whether or not we have a gender in Heaven...so I will not continue this debate any more. If you want to continue a debate with me about marriage in Heaven feel free to PM me.

So you're to say I don't understand love in any part of this life then cut off the debate?Who promised you marriage in the Kingdom of Heaven anyways?

Hey! Can we stop fighting and accusing, please? She never said you didn't understand love, and she didn't leave. She clearly said that you could PM her if you want to talk more. Don't be so accusing: just because no one swore to her she'd have marriage in Heaven, doesn't mean she won't. She's interpeting the will of God and taking things on faith. Isn't that how you're supposed to do things with God -- on faith? He doesn't say some things outright for a reason, and He admires your faithfulness.

She is correct about the topic, though, and was only trying to be courteuous to the creator of this thread. Fighting only draws us farther from God. If you're really concerned, pray about it.

"Clearly you do not understand how love works within marriage or any where else in life"

I'm not accusing falsly. And it's not courteous to get the last word in then end it without at least agreeing to disagree. She got her point across why should I not get my point across publicly? Quite frankly I don't care I got my peace about marriage. I just find it ignorant to suggest I don't understand love.  

[Azkeel]

And imagine me saying this stuff in a very calm way as to not think of me as offensive or emotionally tied to my point.  

[Shadows-shine]

Look, you can still get your point across to me, but out of respect for the rules of the guild and for the creator of the thread, I requested that those who wanted to continue to dispute my belief about marriage in Heaven can take it to PMs because this thread is terribly derailed and I do not wish to derail it any more. I wasn't simply trying to get the last word and back out of the debate.  

[Azkeel]

Shadows-shine

Look, you can still get your point across to me, but out of respect for the rules of the guild and for the creator of the thread, I requested that those who wanted to continue to dispute my belief about marriage in Heaven can take it to PMs because this thread is terribly derailed and I do not wish to derail it any more. I wasn't simply trying to get the last word and back out of the debate.

I understand. Sorry male ego going here haha