Gay Marriages.(sp?)

[Seak]

~Hey, someone with some intelligence in this thread, OH MY ******** GOD!

wink

~Well, not much I can say, I just think in a different way than you.

Such is the wonderful diversity of life. smile

~You have good points as to why not, but the thing is, humans have a mind, filled with emotions, and this idea that says "I can do whatever I want, and I want to have sex with anything that has 2 legs and a whole!" So some people are physically attracted to men, and some to women. It
all depends on Opinion, something the Birds and the Bees don't have.
We all have free range of thought, some peoples thoughts just differ.

A good point. Humans are much more complex in the mind than any other creature on earth. However, that complex mind also comes up with terribly twisted ideas. From things such as rape and murder, to obsessions that infringe upon privacy of others. The question is, where do we draw the line?

~With the psychological part, yes, being "born that way" is bullshit. You
grow on your own opinions, you are never "born that way" unless you
actually have some physical birth defect that acts upon your brain, and
turns on your motor.

AMEN

~Something you have to remember though, if someone wants that drink, they are going to have that drink. Most people are very weak willed and unable to keep themselves from doing so. The same goes for being gay. There is almost never a pure mental connection for gay people, it's almost all based on physical likings. Yes, they do enjoy the company of their partner, and they do "love" their partner, but the only reason why they even considered a same sex relationship is because of the sexual attraction.

This being said, why should homosexuals have the right to marry? It seems to me that if there is no mental connection, if it's mostly based on phycial liking, and the relationship only considered because of sexual attraction, then why get married? It sounds like most homosexual relationships are based on physical desires and weak wills.

The institution of marriage is about the commitment to one another to perservere through good times and bad. I'll be the first to admit that there have been times when I was not attracted to my husband, but the thought of leaving never crossed my mind because we made a commitment to stay together and I knew things would change. If our marriage was based solely on the physical, than I would have been out of here a long time ago. That's the thing about marriage, it's a challenge and it has to go much deeper that the superficial for it to work.  

[Tehmafrath Uzumaki]

Well, no one really knows where to draw the line, so as such, no one
person should be able to do that for anyone else. 'nuff said 'bout that.

Well, it's not that homosexual relationships are right, or wrong, it's that
the government should have no control over someone like that. If
someone wants to be part of a gay marriage, let them. We should have
no say in that. They should also know, that 80% of the world is ignorant
to this and will try to stop the marriage any way possible.

A gay marriage still has the commitment that a normal one does,
it's not completely sexually based, just the startings of it are. Just as you
were looking for a man to be with, a gay person was looking for someone
of the same sex to be with. Naturally, you have the attraction to a man,
they have the attraction to the same sex.  

[Seak]

~Well, it's not that homosexual relationships are right, or wrong, it's that
the government should have no control over someone like that~

Then what's to stop polygamy? Marriage to children? Marriage to sisters/ brothers?


~They should also know, that 80% of the world is ignorant
to this and will try to stop the marriage any way possible

Is this a fact or an assumption?  

[Tehmafrath Uzumaki]

Well, there is the fact that marrying a child, is sort of idiotic. The child
mind does not yet know what love is, nor a gather of time, hence it
will never be legal for them to be married. Maturity is a big factor in
marriage. Most people, even at 18, aren't mature enough to join in
marriage. Sorry for my idiocy, but I can't remember what polygamy is
for the life of me. Marriage between brothers/sisters is, heh, scientifically
wrong. It will thin out the gene pool creating dumber and dumber people,
and we all know where that will get us.

The 80% of the world may be overstepping it, maybe 50% or 60%, but
many religions, if you haven't noticed, do not endorse gay marriage, in
fact, it is a rule in most religions that it not be allowed. The Muslim religion
for instance, also included are the Jewish, Catholic, and most other
religions, although some are just tought that it be tolerated. So partial
fact, and partial assumption.  

[Seak]

~The child mind does not yet know what love is, nor a gather of time, hence it will never be legal for them to be married.~

At what age does a child understand that kind of love though? There are 12 year olds now who say they are in love and want to get married. Who's to say they don't understand?


~Sorry for my idiocy, but I can't remember what polygamy is
for the life of me~

Multiple spouses

~Marriage between brothers/sisters is, heh, scientifically
wrong. It will thin out the gene pool creating dumber and dumber people,
and we all know where that will get us. ~

(lol, I think I've met some of 'us' that are already there...)
Homosexual marriage will result in 0 birth rate thus the end of humanity.

~many religions, if you haven't noticed, do not endorse gay marriage~

I will not comment on this for the sheer fact that it will go into a religious debate and I promised not to do that. smile Perhaps later, but right now it's too late for me to go into it.


WELL! This has been a fantastic debate. Unfortunetly it is now 1 A.M. and I have GOT to get to bed. Maybe we can continue this later. smile  

[Tehmafrath Uzumaki]

Yes, nice debate, i'll reply tomorrow sometime, I have to wash some
clothes tonight so I have clean ones for school tomorrow.  

[Greymore]

I just want to but it reallll quick.

One major problem is that people tend to look at it as the end all decision. If gay marriage is allowed, that doesn't mean everyone is going to suddenly turn gay and humanity will die out.

As for the whole incest, polygamy, and *****... well, they become tricky. Love is love. PERIOD. If you love someone enough to want to be in a relationship with them, the only thing that should stop you is the other person. Both people need to feel the same kind of attraction to eachother, otherwise a relationship can't work. Yes, some aspects (incest particularly) are not culturally acceptable. However, that doesn't neceasarly make them wrong. Remember that inter-racial marriages were on the same taboo list years ago.

Now don't get me wrong. I may not agree with some things, but that doesn't mean that I don't won't still support the ideal of love. I honestly believe that no one should stop you from being with someone you love.  

[Seak]

~If gay marriage is allowed, that doesn't mean everyone is going to suddenly turn gay and humanity will die out.~

I am aware of this. I only used that as an extreme, but the fact is that the birth rate will inevitably fall which could possibly result in some major complications in the future...especially if you allow incest.


~Love is love. PERIOD~

Actually, there are three different kinds of love.
Eros: the warm, fuzzy, cloud 9, sexual love
Philia: the friendship/platonic love
Agape: which I can only clearly define as a love that transends time and circumstances. It is the love that reaches out to even the depraved, and extends to the deep felt care of the others well-being. This love is typically related to God to describe how deeply He loves his children. When used in the context of human nature, this is the love that keeps couples commited to each other even when the dont feel in love.

To which love are you referring? In a normal relationship, the love there is typically a combination of the three, with the underlying basis of agape.

~Both people need to feel the same kind of attraction to eachother, otherwise a relationship can't work~

This is true, and I do not believe that children are capable of the kind of attraction (agape love) needed to sustain a beneficial relationship.
The emotional aspects and responsibilities are not yet learned.

~Yes, some aspects (incest particularly) are not culturally acceptable. However, that doesn't neceasarly make them wrong.~

As Tehmafrath stated,

"Marriage between brothers/sisters is, heh, scientifically wrong. It will thin out the gene pool creating dumber and dumber people, and we all know where that will get us."

There are not only the mental results of incest to worry about, but also the physical defects that would result in such behavior.

Incest isn't outlawed because it's socially unacceptable. It's outlawed for the protection of the human race.  

[christie lee]

I am against it for religious reasons but I realize that we can not make laws based on religion.  

[Raingirl]

I think it ironic that Person A who is against gay marriages is labeled as opinionated and closed-minded by Person B who supports gay marriage but won't listen to the opinion of A, or the reasons why they believe what they believe. I'm not referring to anyone in this discussion because I haven't seen that here, but it has constantly annoyed me. I believe that homosexuality is a sin and therefore wrong. Does that make me closed-minded? Only if someone else's opinion that it is not sin makes them closed-minded as well.

I believe it's wrong. You say it's right. No matter what I say, you won't change your mind. No matter what you say, there is no way I'm changing mine. Both sides are opinionated and stubborn because both believe they know the truth, so nobody's going to budge.

Is one side right and one wrong? I think so, but because I know that God created this universe, so He made the rules. Maybe that sounds horribly pretentious, to say that I think I happen to be on "the right side," but please try to understand what I'm saying.

I DO NOT hate gay people. I feel bad that they're persecuted as much as they are, because as a Christian I'm among some of the most persecuted people in the world. (I'm talking about social persecution here, not the hunting-down-and-killing that occurs in other parts of the world.) But I also believe homosexuality is a sin, and like any other people who haven't given their lives to God, homosexuals are therefore living in sin. (If you're homosexual and claim to be a Christian, then you need to do some serious talking with God. That's a sin you're holding on to, and speaking as one who has held onto some sins for a long time, I know how destructive that can be.) And this isn't some pretentious thing. I am horribly, horribly sinful and I know it. The difference is that I recognize my sin and try to give it to God and overcome it so I can live for Him better.

You may be saying it doesn't matter because you're not a Christian, or you don't believe in God. I'll tell you as gently as possible that it does matter. There are absolute truths, and God's existence and authority are among them. You can say the sky is red with purple polka-dots, but it'll still be blue, and God'll still be God. I don't intend to offend with the highly "religious" nature of this post, but it's important to me. I apologize if I hurt your feelings, or if I was too terribly incoherent.

P.S. I saw a few people mention "separation of church and state" and thought I might share this. According to the Constitution, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." This has been twisted over the years to imply that government and religious faith, beliefs, and expressions must be completely separate, rather than simply that the government can't oppress religion through the making of laws. If you think that "religion" has that much influence in our country anymore, you're sadly mistaken. Well, allow me to correct myself. Religion still has influence. True Christian faith does not. (Because though religion is indeed an important part of Christianity, the phrase "Relationship, not religion" still holds truth.)  

[Reon-kun]

Just because a person may not approve of a certain lifestyle or a person in general doesn't give that person the right to take away our natural and civil rights. What if the president absolutely despised Asian people, and then decided to make a bill that prohibits Asian people from marrying. What is the JUSTIFICATION in that? There is no justification. The only thing that actually condems homosexuality is religion--and that is because religion is archiac and breeding was absolutely necessary. Homosexuals aren't infertile... they can create life if they wanted to. Not everyone is a stereotype, not all homosexuals are going to hit on you.

I don't care if you say it's a sin or not, religion is a belief, not a fact--therefore making your sin idea only an opinion. Homosexuality is a choice, because straight people must know EVERYTHING about homosexuality.  

[Tehmafrath Uzumaki]

This is where we ask ourselves "What is the point of this conversation,
and what is going to be learned from it?"

Well, I don't believe anything will be learned from it, in fact, there is
nothing to learn, only accept. However much homosexual acts are a sin,
it is another persons choice, and who are you to even TRY to stop them
from living their life. When you start limiting ones life, you start limiting
them as a person. I don't give a s**t about this countries laws, these
are partially my ideals, but to get into the rest, means I have a much
longer night ahead of me. I'll leave it at that.  

[Seak]

Tehmafrath Usagi

This is where we ask ourselves "What is the point of this conversation,
and what is going to be learned from it?"

A good point.

The only thing learned from this, is why other people feel the way they do about gay marriages. Essentially, this is a 'round' debate because it is highly unlikely that everyone will eventually see it the same way. This thread is really only here to discuss the issue. Again, please keep in mind that most people who post here would like to debate the issue, not have people screaming at them and calling them a whole plethora of names. That's not a debate, that's an argument.  

[Reon-kun]

Tehmafrath Usagi

This is where we ask ourselves "What is the point of this conversation,
and what is going to be learned from it?"

Well, I don't believe anything will be learned from it, in fact, there is
nothing to learn, only accept. However much homosexual acts are a sin,
it is another persons choice, and who are you to even TRY to stop them
from living their life. When you start limiting ones life, you start limiting
them as a person. I don't give a s**t about this countries laws, these
are partially my ideals, but to get into the rest, means I have a much
longer night ahead of me. I'll leave it at that.

I don't see how nor why it's a sin...
The only choice is to engage in the activity...
Indeed you can't stop them...

What I've learned... well--it's more like what I haven't learned. I still can't see why it's a sin--I can't understand why some people despise homosexuals--blah. I'm stopping now--I'm sure that you guys don't want to hear a 5 page rant...  

[Water Spirit Haku]

1.) Gays rawk my little world. 2.) Homophobes should -all- die, unless they have a GOOD reason. 3.) If I was a boy, I'd be gay.

There. o_o;