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That's true, but in my opinion, it's a fact whether someone else believes it or not. That's just my opinion, that even if someone doesn't think something is wrong, it still is.

Well, what are your thoughts on whether that makes someone evil or not? Your post assumes that there is an inherent soul within someone that can be clearly designated as either "good" or "evil," is this correct? When is this determined, and who's fault is it if that person becomes either?

Furthermore, what do you define as "evil" exactly? You obviously have some idea on the matter, but what is this based on? It would seem to me that the winners of any conflict end up defining the losers and other groups affiliated with opposing ideologies as "evil." Two nations may call each other evil, but how can you tell which one is right and which one is lying?

Exactly, so who can truly judge what is evil and what is not? Remember that although some people commit to action, and accept the consequences without remorse or compassion, they may not necessarily be evil. A man who murders someone, knowing that the victim fully intended to cause harm to himself and his family, must accept the consequences for his actions, ie, jail time. Is this person considered evil?

And what of those who do feel remorse and compassion for killing and doing what others consider "wrong," but go ahead with it anyway? Are they automatically off the hook for being evil? I doubt very much that soldiers of war enjoy their work, but continue to do so for a greater good or a cause that they believe in. They feel terribly for the people they've wronged, but I doubt that they'll stop for that reason alone.

Remember that when people make a conscious decision to do things, they are doing so because they feel it is the best action at that time. They may or may not enjoy it, but they definitely have their reasons. The world is not so black and white to have people who exist for the sole purpose of sowing misery and spilling blood, at least not commonly. Everyone has a motive, and everyone has a drive.

But in what form does evil exist? As you said, there are many shades of grey, how can we be sure that there is an absolute?

My first example, if you didn't catch it, was about self-defense. If a man threatens myself or my family, and I am forced to kill him, then I will do so, fighting for peace, as you put it.

The overall purpose and feeling of war is always peace. As counterintuitive as it may seem, the point of fighting is to win and stop the fighting. Now, the war may start for a variety of reasons, but generally it is to obtain a higher level or order, especially in the cases of military conquest.

Do explain what sort of people do wrong while knowing that there is a better course of action. I was referring to those that premeditate their actions, not those who act in the heat of the moment. What sort of reasoning would a person have to have to commit an action they feel is wrong, and knowing there's another way? Is this not illogical to any person who premeditates their actions?

Ah, I missed this my first time around.

Okay, so to YOU, it's a fact that it's evil, but we're talking about the world as a whole. In terms of the bigger picture, can it be called evil without taking your own opinions into the mix?

A more important fact may be to what extent are personal opinions valid when discussing good and evil. You call it evil, while the perpetrator does not; who's to say who's right and who's wrong? We can rely on the majority judgment, but does this make them "right" in the absolutist sense? History often shows us where the majority has been wrong, and dire consequences have followed.

Isn't that what we're discussing? wink

If you're looking for my opinion, then it's quite simple: I don't believe that evil exists except for in the mind of society and human beings who choose to believe in it. Everyone has their own reasons for their actions, even if they don't fully understand it for themselves. The better we get at understanding the true motives behind actions, the better we can help society as a whole.

So what you're saying is, without humanity, good and evil wouldn't exist? If that's what you're saying, I'll buy that. You don't see animals fighting wars or killing each other out of malice. But I believe God is real, and I believe the Devil is real, therefore I believe evil is too, maybe even if there were no humans on earth.
And if I misunderstood you, well, then...*shrugs* =S