Gay Marriages.(sp?)

[Seak]

offbeat genius

I doubt this guy can prove this to be a fact, either. No, I take that back. He can prove that it all stems from sexual attraction... but I'm going to repeat myself here. So do straight relationships. Most people conveniently fall in love with someone who they're attracted to.

Most people yea. I'm one of the other few. I wasn't attracted to my husband when I met him. Luckily (for both of us), his job required he be out of town almost constantly. We spent hours talking online and I ended up falling in love with who he is, which led to falling in love with what he looked like. xd

offbeat genius

You filthy sinner.

Aren't we all.

offbeat genius

A "mental connection" isn't a strict boundry because both boys and girls have minds, and there isn't really any laws saying that two minds of the same gender can't connect.

Of course there's not. In fact, it's prefectly normal for men to have that connection with other men, and the same for women. The thing is, I believe that some people misinterpret this connection with eros love, instead of philia love. ( I say some, because I am also of the belief that there are many reasons for which people conclude they are lesbian or gay).

offbeat genius

(Every book with those Mars and Venus references would have you believe otherwise, since apparently men and women need an instruction manual to understand eachother... O.o)

Men and women don't necessarily need an instuction manual to understand each other. For years there were none and yet somehow the human population thrived! xd No, those books just help explain why each gender is the way it is, so that each doesn't spend the rest of their lives thinking, "Why in the world is he/she like this?? I don't understand what the obsession is with sports/shopping!!" And also, it does help with the connection between the two genders.

offbeat genius

Anyway, back to what I was saying. Sexuality being fluid pretty much means that chances are plenty of people have connected with something, or even lusted after something that doesn't follow the guidlines of member of the opposite gender within 3 years of your age.

Connected, yes. For that I refer back up a few quotes. Lusted, well, that's a different story. Lust is such a strong word. Referring strickly to people, I don't know a whole lot of children who have lusted after their friends. Lust is defined as 'intense, overwhelming, unrestrained'. I know children have strong desires to be with their friends, but I wouldn't refer to it as 'lust'.
Now, once they begin getting into the age of puberty, there's where I might get more into lust. At that point there are so many hormonal shifts and changes going on that it would be odd if they didn't have any lusts. The thing is, there is such an onslaught of things that happen during this time in a persons life, that I believe they can become confused as to what is what. As I stated above, some confuse their strong same-gendered friendships with eros rather than philia. If you throw in any forms of abuse, or an over dominating parent, etc..etc.. you can really mess with people.

offbeat genius

Seak

offbeat genius

I'd like some evidence that I'm not madly in love with my fiancee and that our relationship is solely physical?

Iiiiisssss this a question or a statement?

Remember what I said about my short term memory? Yeah, neither do I. Sometimes I forget how I was trying to phrase something before I get around to punctuating it, creating all kinds of madcap fun in the punctuation department. It could be a sitcom.

That's supposed to be a period there. It's a request.

Jarvis meant:

I'd like some evidence that I'm not madly in love with my fiancee and that our relationship is solely physical.

Jarvis thought they wrote:

Can you give me evidence that I'm not madly in love with my fiancee and that our relationship is solely physical?

If you want to answer either one, be my guest.

This goes back to my thoughts on the various reasons why people consider themselves gay or lesbian. However, that's a completely different topic and would stray from the point of this thread. In any case, I shall, perhaps, address it at a later time in another thread.

Whew. I've worked my brain enough for now. Must go make some coffee and clean my house. xp Evil elves come in at night and tear it apart.

Note to self: set out the elf traps tonight....  

[Tehmafrath Uzumaki]

To offbeat genius, to add a bit more to your response.

Ok, what I was trying to say with that statement is that when you are
born you are naturally attracted to the opposite sex. So, hence forth, you
search for a loved one of the opposite sex. It's not that your relationship
is based completely sexually, it's just the process of getting that
relationship. Generally gay people decide to be gay for a number of
reasons. They could decide because of mental likeness. Most people of the
same sex have the same kind of thinking and mental state. Another
reason could be that they just like the physical aspect of their same sex
more than the other, and only want someone of the same sex. Some
other person could have even fallen in love with someone close to them
and one day realize that they want to spend the rest of their life with
them. It all ties into a number of factors, it's just the events that happen
in our childhood and early years of living that justify them.  

[CatonaHotSnRoof]

Tehmafrath Usagi

Ok, what I was trying to say with that statement is that when you are born you are naturally attracted to the opposite sex.

Generally gay people decide to be gay for a number of
reasons. They could decide because of mental likeness.

So where do you get the fact that when a person is born they are naturally attracted to the opposite sex? I bet there is some kind of survey out there that asks that, right? I bet EVERYONE is the same. Wow. gonk Too bad I never caught wind of any such survey. No asked me. I wasn't born attracted to the opposite sex. How sad that I couldn't tell the source of this reliable information. stare

You don't decide to be gay anymore than you decide to be straight. It just doesn't work like that.  

[T.C. Mystikal]

I am bi and i dont think i need to tell you why Gay marriage should be allowed...I think Seak has covered it already 3nodding  

[Seak]

T.C. Mystikal

I am bi and i dont think i need to tell you why Gay marriage should be allowed...I think Seak has covered it already 3nodding

oO
Um...where?  

[Tehmafrath Uzumaki]

Kaori Kittii

Tehmafrath Usagi

Ok, what I was trying to say with that statement is that when you are born you are naturally attracted to the opposite sex.

Generally gay people decidto be gay for a number of
reasons. They could decide because of mental likenesse .

So where do you get the fact that when a person is born they are naturally attracted to the opposite sex? I bet there is some kind of survey out there that asks that, right? I bet EVERYONE is the same. Wow. gonk Too bad I never caught wind of any such survey. No asked me. I wasn't born attracted to the opposite sex. How sad that I couldn't tell the source of this reliable information. stare

You don't decide to be gay anymore than you decide to be straight. It just doesn't work like that.

To be completely blatent and obvious, because it seems you don't know
much about humans, or animals in general. See, there is the whole
procreating part, drilled into the instincts of EVERY animal. Including
humans. It just so happens, in order to procreate, there have to be two
people of the opposite sex, and has been proven thus far. No two males
have had a child, and no two women have had a child yet. So yes, we
are naturally born attracted to the opposite sex.  

[T.C. Mystikal]

Seak

T.C. Mystikal

I am bi and i dont think i need to tell you why Gay marriage should be allowed...I think Seak has covered it already 3nodding

oO
Um...where?

I meant
Tehmafrath Usagi sorry  

[walking spanish]

Tehmafrath Usagi

Kaori Kittii

Tehmafrath Usagi

Ok, what I was trying to say with that statement is that when you are born you are naturally attracted to the opposite sex.

Generally gay people decidto be gay for a number of
reasons. They could decide because of mental likenesse .

So where do you get the fact that when a person is born they are naturally attracted to the opposite sex? I bet there is some kind of survey out there that asks that, right? I bet EVERYONE is the same. Wow. gonk Too bad I never caught wind of any such survey. No asked me. I wasn't born attracted to the opposite sex. How sad that I couldn't tell the source of this reliable information. stare

You don't decide to be gay anymore than you decide to be straight. It just doesn't work like that.

To be completely blatent and obvious, because it seems you don't know
much about humans, or animals in general. See, there is the whole
procreating part, drilled into the instincts of EVERY animal. Including
humans. It just so happens, in order to procreate, there have to be two
people of the opposite sex, and has been proven thus far. No two males
have had a child, and no two women have had a child yet. So yes, we
are naturally born attracted to the opposite sex.

Who told you that one? Your youth minister?

In about five minutes I'll produce scientific studies and observations that prove that not only homosexuality is found in nature, but that several studies have been done on genetic and community factors that cause homosexuality.


I want you to do the same for me.

Edit:

Here you are.

ONE

TWO

THREE, now this one is just cute.



FOUR

FIVE, I can't find the actual article. Looking for it is why I took extra long.

Another pointless link that I didn't really read through.


Haay, I'll even be nice and add the argument you're about to type in response.

Animals disobey their "instinct" all the time. Why can't we?

And according to the bible, animals have no soul or free will or choice. They're pretty much put here to serve us, and even on a scientific level, most scientists will agree that pert'near anything up to primitive mammals are ruled almost completely by instinct. They obviously don't CHOOSE to have homosexual pair bonds.

Hell, we do a lot of things that are in some ways counterproductive to having kids. Why are we inventing? Exploring space? Building civilisation? It would be a lot easier if we just stuck to the basic point about breeding.

Why are we conscious beings?  

[WaresTheBeef]

offbeat genius

Tehmafrath Usagi

Kaori Kittii

Tehmafrath Usagi

Ok, what I was trying to say with that statement is that when you are born you are naturally attracted to the opposite sex.

Generally gay people decidto be gay for a number of
reasons. They could decide because of mental likenesse .

So where do you get the fact that when a person is born they are naturally attracted to the opposite sex? I bet there is some kind of survey out there that asks that, right? I bet EVERYONE is the same. Wow. gonk Too bad I never caught wind of any such survey. No asked me. I wasn't born attracted to the opposite sex. How sad that I couldn't tell the source of this reliable information. stare

You don't decide to be gay anymore than you decide to be straight. It just doesn't work like that.

To be completely blatent and obvious, because it seems you don't know
much about humans, or animals in general. See, there is the whole
procreating part, drilled into the instincts of EVERY animal. Including
humans. It just so happens, in order to procreate, there have to be two
people of the opposite sex, and has been proven thus far. No two males
have had a child, and no two women have had a child yet. So yes, we
are naturally born attracted to the opposite sex.

Who told you that one? Your youth minister?

In about five minutes I'll produce scientific studies and observations that prove that not only homosexuality is found in nature, but that several studies have been done on genetic and community factors that cause homosexuality.


I want you to do the same for me.

Edit:

Here you are.

ONE

TWO

THREE, now this one is just cute.



FOUR

FIVE, I can't find the actual article. Looking for it is why I took extra long.

Another pointless link that I didn't really read through.


Haay, I'll even be nice and add the argument you're about to type in response.

Animals disobey their "instinct" all the time. Why can't we?

And according to the bible, animals have no soul or free will or choice. They're pretty much put here to serve us, and even on a scientific level, most scientists will agree that pert'near anything up to primitive mammals are ruled almost completely by instinct. They obviously don't CHOOSE to have homosexual pair bonds.

Hell, we do a lot of things that are in some ways counterproductive to having kids. Why are we inventing? Exploring space? Building civilisation? It would be a lot easier if we just stuck to the basic point about breeding.

Why are we conscious beings?

Not to be an a*****e...but basically you're saying that 1 million years of evolution was a waste because humans are still no better than their animal counterparts?  

[walking spanish]

AegisEvo

offbeat genius

Tehmafrath Usagi

Kaori Kittii

Tehmafrath Usagi

Ok, what I was trying to say with that statement is that when you are born you are naturally attracted to the opposite sex.

Generally gay people decidto be gay for a number of
reasons. They could decide because of mental likenesse .

So where do you get the fact that when a person is born they are naturally attracted to the opposite sex? I bet there is some kind of survey out there that asks that, right? I bet EVERYONE is the same. Wow. gonk Too bad I never caught wind of any such survey. No asked me. I wasn't born attracted to the opposite sex. How sad that I couldn't tell the source of this reliable information. stare

You don't decide to be gay anymore than you decide to be straight. It just doesn't work like that.

To be completely blatent and obvious, because it seems you don't know
much about humans, or animals in general. See, there is the whole
procreating part, drilled into the instincts of EVERY animal. Including
humans. It just so happens, in order to procreate, there have to be two
people of the opposite sex, and has been proven thus far. No two males
have had a child, and no two women have had a child yet. So yes, we
are naturally born attracted to the opposite sex.

Who told you that one? Your youth minister?

In about five minutes I'll produce scientific studies and observations that prove that not only homosexuality is found in nature, but that several studies have been done on genetic and community factors that cause homosexuality.


I want you to do the same for me.

Edit:

Here you are.

ONE

TWO

THREE, now this one is just cute.



FOUR

FIVE, I can't find the actual article. Looking for it is why I took extra long.

Another pointless link that I didn't really read through.


Haay, I'll even be nice and add the argument you're about to type in response.

Animals disobey their "instinct" all the time. Why can't we?

And according to the bible, animals have no soul or free will or choice. They're pretty much put here to serve us, and even on a scientific level, most scientists will agree that pert'near anything up to primitive mammals are ruled almost completely by instinct. They obviously don't CHOOSE to have homosexual pair bonds.

Hell, we do a lot of things that are in some ways counterproductive to having kids. Why are we inventing? Exploring space? Building civilisation? It would be a lot easier if we just stuck to the basic point about breeding.

Why are we conscious beings?

Not to be an a*****e...but basically you're saying that 1 million years of evolution was a waste because humans are still no better than their animal counterparts?

Don't worry. You're not being an a*****e.

Yeah, pretty much.

(but that's a personal opinion that we don't need to discuss here.)

I wasn't saying that with this argument. I was pretty much repeating what he said back to him with my spin on it. Nothing more. He's the one who said that we all must be born heterosexual because our animal instinct dictates. I was proving to him that not only is homosexuality found in the wild but even after you prove that, if we simply went by the primitive urge to further the species then we wouldn't be anything but animals.  

[Tehmafrath Uzumaki]

stare

Umm . . excuse me, but yeah, there are discrepencies here and there, but
they are not born with the intent to go ******** something the same sex. They
are born with primal instincts to have sex, hunt, and live as long a life as
age can get them. You seem to have missed my point. That is why
humans are not born gay. I was ruling out that it is a physical imbalance
that makes this. It is generally the persons childhood, as stated before in
my previous posts. And btw, you seem to be attacking my argument as
if I am against homosexuality, and you yourself seem to back it up. So
before you further such misconceptions, I assure you, I am not against it.
You also said something about my youth minister, don't assume things.
I am not Christian, I am Wiccan. The revelations I have come
to have are on my own accord and logical thinking.

Just a simple respone for the sites. So what, animals are seen as having
the mental capacity for a relationship? What, do they get married? Like
I said, SEX. They are born to have sex, not just breed. It's an instinct that
even few humans can avoid. The first site mentioned puts us no higher
than animals with relationships. The human brain is much more complex
than that of an animals. Truly, animals have breeding partners, not
relationships. The most dominant (or strongest) of the race normally
pair up for mating. In packs, there is the Alpha, the pair that breeds to
have the strongest offspring. But I digress. The comparison of the human
and animal instincts may have been a little odd, but it does the job. It
was not meant to say that we are brainless monkeys.  

[wunderbreadgoddess]

videogamesupermaster

because it is not right and if they have kids some how then there kids will be gay and then we will have a real problem

I'm not really sorry for what I'm about to say: YOU SOUND STUPID!!!.
Why should it matter if they're homosexual or heterosexual. If they love each other and want to spend their lives together who are you or anyone else for that matter to tell them no. It's really sad that in this day and age people don't have enough sense to realize that we need to move past petty differences and focus on more pressing issues. Like getting Bush assassinated.  

[calamity]

Tehmafrath Usagi

stare

Umm . . excuse me, but yeah, there are discrepencies here and there, but
they are not born with the intent to go ******** something the same sex. They
are born with primal instincts to have sex, hunt, and live as long a life as
age can get them. You seem to have missed my point. That is why
humans are not born gay. I was ruling out that it is a physical imbalance
that makes this. It is generally the persons childhood, as stated before in
my previous posts. And btw, you seem to be attacking my argument as
if I am against homosexuality, and you yourself seem to back it up. So
before you further such misconceptions, I assure you, I am not against it.
You also said something about my youth minister, don't assume things.
I am not Christian, I am Wiccan. The revelations I have come
to have are on my own accord and logical thinking.

Just a simple respone for the sites. So what, animals are seen as having
the mental capacity for a relationship? What, do they get married? Like
I said, SEX. They are born to have sex, not just breed. It's an instinct that
even few humans can avoid. The first site mentioned puts us no higher
than animals with relationships. The human brain is much more complex
than that of an animals. Truly, animals have breeding partners, not
relationships. The most dominant (or strongest) of the race normally
pair up for mating. In packs, there is the Alpha, the pair that breeds to
have the strongest offspring. But I digress. The comparison of the human
and animal instincts may have been a little odd, but it does the job. It
was not meant to say that we are brainless monkeys.

I feel bad leaving all this hanging like this, so I'm going to end it.

(Yes, I'm offbeat genius)

Fine. You win.

You are obviously much smarter than me, as I cannot argue with this.

Basically I'm ending this because you've completely muddled your position in those last two paragraphs. You talked about things that don't seem to relate to the argument at all, and assumed that I assumed things that I'm not positive I assumed at all. In fact, you even said that animals are born to have sex... not breed. That would make all of us inherently bisexual, since anybody can get someone else off.  

[Reon-kun]

calamity

Tehmafrath Usagi

stare

Umm . . excuse me, but yeah, there are discrepencies here and there, but
they are not born with the intent to go ******** something the same sex. They
are born with primal instincts to have sex, hunt, and live as long a life as
age can get them. You seem to have missed my point. That is why
humans are not born gay. I was ruling out that it is a physical imbalance
that makes this. It is generally the persons childhood, as stated before in
my previous posts. And btw, you seem to be attacking my argument as
if I am against homosexuality, and you yourself seem to back it up. So
before you further such misconceptions, I assure you, I am not against it.
You also said something about my youth minister, don't assume things.
I am not Christian, I am Wiccan. The revelations I have come
to have are on my own accord and logical thinking.

Just a simple respone for the sites. So what, animals are seen as having
the mental capacity for a relationship? What, do they get married? Like
I said, SEX. They are born to have sex, not just breed. It's an instinct that
even few humans can avoid. The first site mentioned puts us no higher
than animals with relationships. The human brain is much more complex
than that of an animals. Truly, animals have breeding partners, not
relationships. The most dominant (or strongest) of the race normally
pair up for mating. In packs, there is the Alpha, the pair that breeds to
have the strongest offspring. But I digress. The comparison of the human
and animal instincts may have been a little odd, but it does the job. It
was not meant to say that we are brainless monkeys.

I feel bad leaving all this hanging like this, so I'm going to end it.

(Yes, I'm offbeat genius)

Fine. You win.

You are obviously much smarter than me, as I cannot argue with this.

Basically I'm ending this because you've completely muddled your position in those last two paragraphs. You talked about things that don't seem to relate to the argument at all, and assumed that I assumed things that I'm not positive I assumed at all. In fact, you even said that animals are born to have sex... not breed. That would make all of us inherently bisexual, since anybody can get someone else off.

Correct me if I'm wrong: Usagi is inferring that our only purpose on Earth is to breed/have sex, and therefore, homosexuality is incorrect because they don't have the drive to increase the population.

Isn't it kind of morbid to think that? That our only purpose in life is to eventually overpopulate the earth? Your logic is flawed--the world is like the human body--each part of it is different, yet the same. The body must always be in harmony with itself, otherwise it will malfunction--same goes with the world. If the world has a constant positive increase in population , the world itself will become weaker, easily affected by the most insignificant environmental changes .

I know I can't convince you otherwise, but rest assured, it isn't a choice. How were you so sure that you were straight when you were a kid--a virgin--never experiencing your first kiss? You just did--you could feel that you were naturally attracted to the opposite sex. Why can't it be vice versa? Why can't homosexuals just be natually attracted to the same sex? Why do ALL the heterosexuals automatically assume that we just chose to be like this?  

[Meiriona]

damnit! it passed >< why why why do they infringe on peoples rights like that? its not like you need a church to be married, so their rules shouldnt apply