holy s**t i can't believe i GUESSED who the killer was lol when i asked if i could use my power on myself, i was going to switch myself and quinn this round because I suspected them on a hunch.
well, it's been fun anyway. it was nice to nerd out over lotr.
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:09 am
I really thought it will continue a couple more days gonk
Ok, just to clarify what happened the previous round.
Yami, Jan, and myself were killed via something that shouldn't have happened; something that was a complete and blatant disregard of the rules.
Jan was the reviver, Yami and myself were angels. I protected Yami and Yami protected Jan. I sent in my angel role at the very end of the previous round, as timing is key to this game.
How we died is that Bilbo (Charish) copied the role of the King of the Dead (Drako), killed me, and then Sarumon (Quinn) killed the other two.
What was wrong with this: 1 - Timing is everything. If Quinn sent in her kills first, the kills on them wouldn't have gone through (my protect was sent first). 2 - The hosts attempted to only copy part of the King of the Dead's role, ignoring a whole portion. They tried to use how a role copier wouldn't copy the detectives jail card, but that is because it is a card, not a role (previously discussed and agreed upon in earlier games). Here is what I wrote to them.
"Role: Defined as both the passive and active roles, this is the difference between a citizen and power holder. Also synonymous with 'power(s)'.
Detective role: The ability to get a single clue about their paired killer from the hosts, in order to find and jail their target. They also have a card (not a role) that allows them to jail one person instantly. This was originally considered a role, but several games ago, it was switched to card since it is supposed to be unavoidable, and roles can be blocked. This jail can not be blocked. This is considered more of a perk, than a role.
King of Dead Role: May only be killed or jailed. (Passive) Has a revenge kill when they die. (Active)
Bilbo Role: Has the power to copy a role (or power). (Active) Lasts only a round and can use it every round. Can't copy the same person again for the rest of the game.
Bilbo is required to copy the entirety of their target's role, good and bad, usable and unusable. It is not up to the host to amend a role that is unusable so that the role copier can use it. On several games in the past, if this situation happened, the copier would have just had been able to do nothing.
When it comes to the King of the Dead's role, we understand what you are trying to do, however it isn't fair or correct. The requirement of his role's kill is for him to be dead. If Charish was to use the kill, they would have needed to die that round. That kill requires the death of the host in order to work. This is not the typical killer role, where when he is alive, he get's free reign.
To allow them to copy one role, but completely ignore the other portion isn't fair or right. The role is the role. It isn't split up into two roles. To simply put it, the role she copied is that of the King of the Dead, not a revenge kill. That is why in that post, each name is labelled under "Role". It isn't each separate part, but the entirety that makes the role of the King of the Dead."
They tried to say that the role only copies the active roles, not passive roles. If you look at the roles post, it doesn't state anything about active and passive roles, and Bilbo being able to only copy the active. It say Bilbo has to copy a role (King of the Dead is the full role), not that he has the choice of ignoring parts of the role to suit him.
I tried to suggest that they keep it in mind for the following game, but to admit that mistakes were made this game and move on. They try to tell me not to compare it to previous games. I tell them no, because each game is roughly a copy of the previous one with very few unique roles.
"I am going to point out that there was nothing stating Bilbo only copying active roles in the beginning, it says roles. Roles are clearly defined as both active and passive effects which make up the entirety of the role called King of the Dead.
Each role tends to follow a certain guideline (this isn't the first time we have had killers, detectives, angels, role doublers, role blockers, and copycats). This isn't an original role. This is one that already has a guideline to it, and to change it without any warning when it is negatively affecting someone isn't fair. You can't say we can't compare a Mafia game to a different Mafia game, when they all are basically the same with just a varied story line and sometimes a few unique roles. The role isn't stated as (Bilbo can copy the active role of any person). It says that he copies the role, which indicate both active and passive.
My advice is, with the following game that you host (whenever that may be), if you chose to do the same kind of thing, indicate both passive and actives, as well as indicating he can copy only the active role.
However, this game you were not specific and it was written how I had previously stated. Learning experience, but we shouldn't have to pay because a massive flaw was left out of the actual listings of the roles.
If you take DJ's Avatar game, his copy role there said: "Each round Koh can steal the face of another player. This means he able to copy the role of another player. If the player does not have a special role, then Koh will have one extra vote for this round since civilian benders can only just vote."
Within those roles, he specifically said what was roles and special abilities, and the difference. There was nothing listed like that in here."
They refused to listen. They ignored the rules of the game, altering the game and ignoring the roles they wrote themselves. They decided to instead end the game instead of doing the simple fix, leaving Jan and myself completely ********...
TL;DR:
Hosts tried to create drama by ignoring part of the game rules. They let Charish have a kill without her being dead (the requirement for the KotD's kill), taking only a portion of the role and neglecting the rest. They tried to pin it on something that has never been enacted with any other game, without telling anyone or writing it down in the roles. They argued they could because they didn't write it down specifically, which is incorrect. They try to tell me that this game isn't like the others. I provide proof of the opposite.
They refused to listen to logic and alter the death scene, and instead decided to end it with us being dead even though we should have still been in the game.
We said nothing about ending the game, that was of their own accord. We wanted the game to continue, fairly. Instead, we get cheated out.
If you have any clarifying questions, let me know. I am so sleepy, so I probably missed stuff.
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:44 am
Niccolo Ammaniti
JanJiz
You can call me Jay
maIenky droog
Kyllorac
Quinn
Krodan
outlaw trinidy
YamiTyger
123jimmy321
Drakokatze
Charish669
Shikyo Kuranosai
Ok, just to clarify what happened the previous round.
Yami, Jan, and myself were killed via something that shouldn't have happened; something that was a complete and blatant disregard of the rules.
Jan was the reviver, Yami and myself were angels. I protected Yami and Yami protected Jan. I sent in my angel role at the very end of the previous round, as timing is key to this game.
How we died is that Bilbo (Charish) copied the role of the King of the Dead (Drako), killed me, and then Sarumon (Quinn) killed the other two.
What was wrong with this: 1 - Timing is everything. If Quinn sent in her kills first, the kills on them wouldn't have gone through (my protect was sent first). 2 - The hosts attempted to only copy part of the King of the Dead's role, ignoring a whole portion. They tried to use how a role copier wouldn't copy the detectives jail card, but that is because it is a card, not a role (previously discussed and agreed upon in earlier games). Here is what I wrote to them.
"Role: Defined as both the passive and active roles, this is the difference between a citizen and power holder. Also synonymous with 'power(s)'.
Detective role: The ability to get a single clue about their paired killer from the hosts, in order to find and jail their target. They also have a card (not a role) that allows them to jail one person instantly. This was originally considered a role, but several games ago, it was switched to card since it is supposed to be unavoidable, and roles can be blocked. This jail can not be blocked. This is considered more of a perk, than a role.
King of Dead Role: May only be killed or jailed. (Passive) Has a revenge kill when they die. (Active)
Bilbo Role: Has the power to copy a role (or power). (Active) Lasts only a round and can use it every round. Can't copy the same person again for the rest of the game.
Bilbo is required to copy the entirety of their target's role, good and bad, usable and unusable. It is not up to the host to amend a role that is unusable so that the role copier can use it. On several games in the past, if this situation happened, the copier would have just had been able to do nothing.
When it comes to the King of the Dead's role, we understand what you are trying to do, however it isn't fair or correct. The requirement of his role's kill is for him to be dead. If Charish was to use the kill, they would have needed to die that round. That kill requires the death of the host in order to work. This is not the typical killer role, where when he is alive, he get's free reign.
To allow them to copy one role, but completely ignore the other portion isn't fair or right. The role is the role. It isn't split up into two roles. To simply put it, the role she copied is that of the King of the Dead, not a revenge kill. That is why in that post, each name is labelled under "Role". It isn't each separate part, but the entirety that makes the role of the King of the Dead."
They tried to say that the role only copies the active roles, not passive roles. If you look at the roles post, it doesn't state anything about active and passive roles, and Bilbo being able to only copy the active. It say Bilbo has to copy a role (King of the Dead is the full role), not that he has the choice of ignoring parts of the role to suit him.
I tried to suggest that they keep it in mind for the following game, but to admit that mistakes were made this game and move on. They try to tell me not to compare it to previous games. I tell them no, because each game is roughly a copy of the previous one with very few unique roles.
"I am going to point out that there was nothing stating Bilbo only copying active roles in the beginning, it says roles. Roles are clearly defined as both active and passive effects which make up the entirety of the role called King of the Dead.
Each role tends to follow a certain guideline (this isn't the first time we have had killers, detectives, angels, role doublers, role blockers, and copycats). This isn't an original role. This is one that already has a guideline to it, and to change it without any warning when it is negatively affecting someone isn't fair. You can't say we can't compare a Mafia game to a different Mafia game, when they all are basically the same with just a varied story line and sometimes a few unique roles. The role isn't stated as (Bilbo can copy the active role of any person). It says that he copies the role, which indicate both active and passive.
My advice is, with the following game that you host (whenever that may be), if you chose to do the same kind of thing, indicate both passive and actives, as well as indicating he can copy only the active role.
However, this game you were not specific and it was written how I had previously stated. Learning experience, but we shouldn't have to pay because a massive flaw was left out of the actual listings of the roles.
If you take DJ's Avatar game, his copy role there said: "Each round Koh can steal the face of another player. This means he able to copy the role of another player. If the player does not have a special role, then Koh will have one extra vote for this round since civilian benders can only just vote."
Within those roles, he specifically said what was roles and special abilities, and the difference. There was nothing listed like that in here."
They refused to listen. They ignored the rules of the game, altering the game and ignoring the roles they wrote themselves. They decided to instead end the game instead of doing the simple fix, leaving Jan and myself completely ********...
TL;DR:
Hosts tried to create drama by ignoring part of the game rules. They let Charish have a kill without her being dead (the requirement for the KotD's kill), taking only a portion of the role and neglecting the rest. They tried to pin it on something that has never been enacted with any other game, without telling anyone or writing it down in the roles. They argued they could because they didn't write it down specifically, which is incorrect. They try to tell me that this game isn't like the others. I provide proof of the opposite.
They refused to listen to logic and alter the death scene, and instead decided to end it with us being dead even though we should have still been in the game.
We said nothing about ending the game, that was of their own accord. We wanted the game to continue, fairly. Instead, we get cheated out.
If you have any clarifying questions, let me know. I am so sleepy, so I probably missed stuff.
▌ A ROOM WITHOUT BOOKS IS LIKE A BODY WITHOUT SOUL ▌ - MARCUS TULLIUS CICERO
Dude. You lost. Their rules. Get over it. I am not even keeping my money.
▌ THE PERSON, BE IT GENTLEMAN OR LADY, WHO HAS NOT PLEASURE IN A GOOD NOVEL, MUST BE INTOLERABLY STUPID. ▌ - JANE AUSTEN
Really? This is just an attempt to stir up drama. You wanted the game to go your way rather then consider other avenues like they spent hours discussing.
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:47 am
Niccolo Ammaniti
JanJiz
You can call me Jay
maIenky droog
Kyllorac
Quinn
Krodan
outlaw trinidy
YamiTyger
123jimmy321
Drakokatze
Charish669
Shikyo Kuranosai
Ok, just to clarify what happened the previous round.
Yami, Jan, and myself were killed via something that shouldn't have happened; something that was a complete and blatant disregard of the rules.
Jan was the reviver, Yami and myself were angels. I protected Yami and Yami protected Jan. I sent in my angel role at the very end of the previous round, as timing is key to this game.
How we died is that Bilbo (Charish) copied the role of the King of the Dead (Drako), killed me, and then Sarumon (Quinn) killed the other two.
What was wrong with this: 1 - Timing is everything. If Quinn sent in her kills first, the kills on them wouldn't have gone through (my protect was sent first). 2 - The hosts attempted to only copy part of the King of the Dead's role, ignoring a whole portion. They tried to use how a role copier wouldn't copy the detectives jail card, but that is because it is a card, not a role (previously discussed and agreed upon in earlier games). Here is what I wrote to them.
"Role: Defined as both the passive and active roles, this is the difference between a citizen and power holder. Also synonymous with 'power(s)'.
Detective role: The ability to get a single clue about their paired killer from the hosts, in order to find and jail their target. They also have a card (not a role) that allows them to jail one person instantly. This was originally considered a role, but several games ago, it was switched to card since it is supposed to be unavoidable, and roles can be blocked. This jail can not be blocked. This is considered more of a perk, than a role.
King of Dead Role: May only be killed or jailed. (Passive) Has a revenge kill when they die. (Active)
Bilbo Role: Has the power to copy a role (or power). (Active) Lasts only a round and can use it every round. Can't copy the same person again for the rest of the game.
Bilbo is required to copy the entirety of their target's role, good and bad, usable and unusable. It is not up to the host to amend a role that is unusable so that the role copier can use it. On several games in the past, if this situation happened, the copier would have just had been able to do nothing.
When it comes to the King of the Dead's role, we understand what you are trying to do, however it isn't fair or correct. The requirement of his role's kill is for him to be dead. If Charish was to use the kill, they would have needed to die that round. That kill requires the death of the host in order to work. This is not the typical killer role, where when he is alive, he get's free reign.
To allow them to copy one role, but completely ignore the other portion isn't fair or right. The role is the role. It isn't split up into two roles. To simply put it, the role she copied is that of the King of the Dead, not a revenge kill. That is why in that post, each name is labelled under "Role". It isn't each separate part, but the entirety that makes the role of the King of the Dead."
They tried to say that the role only copies the active roles, not passive roles. If you look at the roles post, it doesn't state anything about active and passive roles, and Bilbo being able to only copy the active. It say Bilbo has to copy a role (King of the Dead is the full role), not that he has the choice of ignoring parts of the role to suit him.
I tried to suggest that they keep it in mind for the following game, but to admit that mistakes were made this game and move on. They try to tell me not to compare it to previous games. I tell them no, because each game is roughly a copy of the previous one with very few unique roles.
"I am going to point out that there was nothing stating Bilbo only copying active roles in the beginning, it says roles. Roles are clearly defined as both active and passive effects which make up the entirety of the role called King of the Dead.
Each role tends to follow a certain guideline (this isn't the first time we have had killers, detectives, angels, role doublers, role blockers, and copycats). This isn't an original role. This is one that already has a guideline to it, and to change it without any warning when it is negatively affecting someone isn't fair. You can't say we can't compare a Mafia game to a different Mafia game, when they all are basically the same with just a varied story line and sometimes a few unique roles. The role isn't stated as (Bilbo can copy the active role of any person). It says that he copies the role, which indicate both active and passive.
My advice is, with the following game that you host (whenever that may be), if you chose to do the same kind of thing, indicate both passive and actives, as well as indicating he can copy only the active role.
However, this game you were not specific and it was written how I had previously stated. Learning experience, but we shouldn't have to pay because a massive flaw was left out of the actual listings of the roles.
If you take DJ's Avatar game, his copy role there said: "Each round Koh can steal the face of another player. This means he able to copy the role of another player. If the player does not have a special role, then Koh will have one extra vote for this round since civilian benders can only just vote."
Within those roles, he specifically said what was roles and special abilities, and the difference. There was nothing listed like that in here."
They refused to listen. They ignored the rules of the game, altering the game and ignoring the roles they wrote themselves. They decided to instead end the game instead of doing the simple fix, leaving Jan and myself completely ********...
TL;DR:
Hosts tried to create drama by ignoring part of the game rules. They let Charish have a kill without her being dead (the requirement for the KotD's kill), taking only a portion of the role and neglecting the rest. They tried to pin it on something that has never been enacted with any other game, without telling anyone or writing it down in the roles. They argued they could because they didn't write it down specifically, which is incorrect. They try to tell me that this game isn't like the others. I provide proof of the opposite.
They refused to listen to logic and alter the death scene, and instead decided to end it with us being dead even though we should have still been in the game.
We said nothing about ending the game, that was of their own accord. We wanted the game to continue, fairly. Instead, we get cheated out.
If you have any clarifying questions, let me know. I am so sleepy, so I probably missed stuff.
and before any of that, right out of the gate, day 1, a b***h fit occurred because some people were not going to get their way. the game, out of the box, was already altered, and roles were forced to change their actions for the sake of some few precious feelings.
not calling any names, but if some could see the forest from the trees, they would realize their guilt.
Buddy, they ignored their own rules. I don't need their gold. It is against the rules to alter the game to incite drama. Both the Captain and Vice agree on this fact. We don't mind losing, but we hate tampering with the game.
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:49 am
Niccolo Ammaniti
Quinn
Buddy, they ignored their own rules. I don't need their gold. It is against the rules to alter the game to incite drama. Both the Captain and Vice agree on this fact. We don't mind losing, but we hate tampering with the game.
and yet right out of the box, SOMEONES complaining tampered with the chosen actions from the getgo. Janjiz was to die the first round AT RANDOM, if someone had not had a hissy fit.
Really? This is just an attempt to stir up drama. You wanted the game to go your way rather then consider other avenues like they spent hours discussing.
Hi Robert: I attempted to talk via chat. We all did. You argued points suck as: [10/16/2015 10:39:32 PM] Robert: The power was copied. Not the role. [10/16/2015 10:39:44 PM] Robert: he wasn't becoming the role [10/16/2015 10:39:48 PM] Pj: "each round Bilbo Baggins can use his power to copy a person's role." [10/16/2015 10:39:58 PM] Pj: "power to copy a person's role." [10/16/2015 10:40:05 PM] Pj: "person's role." [10/16/2015 10:40:09 PM] Pj: "role." [10/16/2015 10:40:45 PM] Pj: It is black and white. [10/16/2015 10:40:58 PM] Pj: So no one should be dead.
The basic way this went was me quoting the game and people pulling rules out of their a** that the hosts just assumed.
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:51 am
Niccolo Ammaniti
Quinn
Buddy, they ignored their own rules. I don't need their gold. It is against the rules to alter the game to incite drama. Both the Captain and Vice agree on this fact. We don't mind losing, but we hate tampering with the game.
▌ A ROOM WITHOUT BOOKS IS LIKE A BODY WITHOUT SOUL ▌ - MARCUS TULLIUS CICERO
Yet someone complained and it was tampered with. Let me tell something. First round if I wasn't asked, Yami and Jan would have been dead. Reason why not? Cause someone had a fit about the killer role and would have a bigger one if she died.
▌ THE PERSON, BE IT GENTLEMAN OR LADY, WHO HAS NOT PLEASURE IN A GOOD NOVEL, MUST BE INTOLERABLY STUPID. ▌ - JANE AUSTEN
Do you mean when they changed the roles during the first round, not notifying anyone?
Just for everyone's knowledge, this is when they decided against adding a second killer, then decided to give the one killer two kills, not notifying people in the game.
Altering mid-game isn't allowed, regardless if it is the first or last round.
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