About abortion debates.

[Sonaniaro]

I always enjoyed this quote my father told me once.
"The right to life stops at birth"
Unfortunately I cannot recall who said it. It reveals how people can actually believe that nothing is more important than a "baby" being born, to the great discomfort of the mother, even if it dies of starvation three days latter in a dumpster. That is what makes me feel sickened.

I was also wondering what people thought about the father? I do not think it's fair that the woman is the only who can potently be responsible for having sex. A guy can go bang any woman he wanted without any consequence (save STI's of course). Because of that this whole notion of the woman having to take responsibility for her promiscuity escapes me entirely.

I honestly hope that makes a shred of sence  

[Yeonie]

God-Raped-Me

So I have a couple points I'm curious about. I'm posting this in the ATG because I know we're all capable of having an intelligent conversation about this, unlike the bull that comes out of the ED. Now I can see this starting up quite a heated debate and I must ask before I go on, DO NOT BE RUDE TO ANYONE WHO POSTS! THESE ARE OPINIONS AND MORALS OF PEOPLE AND CAN NOT BE WRONG! Now that I have that out of the way, I will go on with my questions.

How come when people are bashing abortion, but not abortion over rape, they never think about if the couple used contraceptives? The chick who was raped didn't want to get pregnant and neither did the girl on the pill. In my case we used the pill and a condom and I STILL got pregnant. I just don't understand why pregnancy because of rape and pregnancy even with the use of contraceptives are different.

Now for the long one. How come people who are pro-life can't understand that should a law be passed, because of them, to make abortions illegal it is now THEIR fault that those lives are born. I looked up the stats on abortion this is for 2000, that year 1.31 million abortions happened in the US taken from here. I suck at looking up stats, so if someone could find a more recent one for all of North America I'd love that! Also for those of you in a country other than one in North America feel free to post your country's stats! Anyways they can't understand that because they allowed a law to be passed that made abortion illegal, these new lives are now THEIR fault. Their "logic" is "I'm not the one who had sex, it's not my responsibility.". They can't understand that it's because of them that a life HAD to be born, and it's their fault. I just can't understand how they don't get the logic!

Just a funny little tidbit, I was reading one of the debates in the ED and some guy said "It's not my fault he stuck his stick in her chocolate maker and she got pregnant.". Biology much? rofl If you don't know how it works, don't talk about it.

How can you say that the lives born through unwanted/unplanned pregancies are the FAULTS of pro-life people ?
How is a birth, a FAULT ?
A life is a life, it may be born with a burden, but it doesn't change the fact that it's still a human being, all the same, and should be treated like any other people.
It's not any less "wanted" because of the circumstances it was born under.  

[God-Raped-Me]

How about you read the rest of what I ******** said? I said they WOULD be the faults of said people because the pro life people would be forcing a birth, an unwanted birth. And yes there IS such a thing as an unwanted birth.

Not everyone can care for a new life. In fact there are several people here in the ATG who KNOW they could never care for a child, and are doing all they can to prevent it. It IS unwanted in some cases and in said cases that child shouldn't BE born. It's just unfair to the child. I will use myself as an example. I would never ever ever give birth to a retarded child because I believe retarded people are a burden on society. I could never love or care or take the time and emotion needed to raise one and therefore won't because it's unfair.

I want to ask you pro lifers how is it fair that the child should suffer because the parents are unfit parents, or maybe the parents are having troubles supporting themselves and now the baby gets to starve when it's born. Perhaps the mother is an alcoholic and the alcohol is being passed on through the breast milk and damaging the child. How is THAT fair? Why should a child have to be raised through s**t like that? Or here's another one. both the parents knew they couldn't handle a child yet they were forced to have it anyways so one of two things happen either they leave the child where ever to fend for itself, or they beat it to death because they couldn't handle it. Good job now a child is dead because you can't see past your own lives and thought you were doing good by making it illegal to abort. So this child got to see some of life and then had to suffer FAR more than it would have should it had been aborted.

What about natures abortions? Miscarriages happen all the time. Are you going to try and stop those too?

I would also like to point out that in nature, or the wild if you will, if the parents know that their children and themselves cannot survive they'll kill their offspring because they know that if THEY can't live neither can their babies, so why should a mother be forced to die while giving birth?  

[Milk and Holy Water]

God-Raped-Me

How about you read the rest of what I ******** said? I said they WOULD be the faults of said people because the pro life people would be forcing a birth, an unwanted birth. And yes there IS such a thing as an unwanted birth.

Not everyone can care for a new life. In fact there are several people here in the ATG who KNOW they could never care for a child, and are doing all they can to prevent it. It IS unwanted in some cases and in said cases that child shouldn't BE born. It's just unfair to the child. I will use myself as an example. I would never ever ever give birth to a retarded child because I believe retarded people are a burden on society. I could never love or care or take the time and emotion needed to raise one and therefore won't because it's unfair.

I want to ask you pro lifers how is it fair that the child should suffer because the parents are unfit parents, or maybe the parents are having troubles supporting themselves and now the baby gets to starve when it's born. Perhaps the mother is an alcoholic and the alcohol is being passed on through the breast milk and damaging the child. How is THAT fair? Why should a child have to be raised through s**t like that? Or here's another one. both the parents knew they couldn't handle a child yet they were forced to have it anyways so one of two things happen either they leave the child where ever to fend for itself, or they beat it to death because they couldn't handle it. Good job now a child is dead because you can't see past your own lives and thought you were doing good by making it illegal to abort. So this child got to see some of life and then had to suffer FAR more than it would have should it had been aborted.

What about natures abortions? Miscarriages happen all the time. Are you going to try and stop those too?

I would also like to point out that in nature, or the wild if you will, if the parents know that their children and themselves cannot survive they'll kill their offspring because they know that if THEY can't live neither can their babies, so why should a mother be forced to die while giving birth?

GRM pretty much states in this thread through her posts a view that I completely agree with. In fact, the posts from last year very elegantly explain a sentiment that I attempted to make clear in the other abortion thread.

It is astounding that as soon as a fetus becomes an adult, the sympathy for the circumstances of it's life are instantly vanquished, along with any ideals as to their right to life.