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 Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:55 pm
bluegrass cat EggaxSponge I have a different perspective on this now. Hamas has been firing on Israelis for the past eight years. Not to engage in war, just to kill innocent civilians. True, Israel has overstepped its boundaries more than once in this "war", but I maintain that they have the right to defend themselves. As for Hamas being a democratically elected government...Sure, Hamas has people who elect its leaders, but the people who choose to follow the ideology are radicals who want to wipe Israel off the map. Hamas separated from Fatah because Fatah thought this specific group of individuals was too radical for their organization. Bluegrass, what do you mean "one side isn't acting very muslim and the other isn't acting very christian"? confused The national religion of Israel is Judaism. Unless you're projecting your own religion on the actions of another people, or are genuinely confused, I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Oh, and Ninja, as for your comment on how Israelis are killing innocent people...it's because HAMAS is putting missile launchers on the playgrounds of schools and hiding nuclear weapons in the apartments of unknowing innocent people. Israel sent a missile in response to the one launched from the school. They had NO IDEA that the site was a place where many children were playing. Now Israel is throwing fake bombs before they throw the real ones so that civilians will run away. [Hamas has been putting civilians on the roofs of their headquarters so that the Israelis will not thrown bombs.] And now is the time for me to be the stereotypical Jew. I do not think Israel is full of hate. Before 1948, the Jews were forced out of Israel by the Palestinian Arabs and Christians. When Israel was formed by the UN, the Israeli government did not forced either of these groups to leave. Moreover, after the Six Day War when Israel acquired the Gaza Strip, Israel did not force the Palestinian Arabs to leave their homes. The only people who have had to ever leave their homes by order of the Israeli government were the Jews who had to leave the Gaza Strip three years ago when Israel gave the land back to the Palestinian Arabs. AND HAMAS KEPT THROWING BOMBS. rolleyes lol, i meant jewish. this is what happens when i post hella late. xd i still stand by what i said though. its a complicated issue and both sides are wrong. wars never solve anything, they just cause more anger. and to say that one of the sides dropping bombs and engaging in war ISN'T full of hate or anger is just silly. no one ever fires rockets out of love. stare To me, defending your own country is not firing rockets out of hate. I'm not being silly. I'm trying not to make gross generalizations and actually voice my opinion. Unlike everybody else, I'm not just labeling it as a complicated issue and am trying to actually have a concise response to the initial question. Call me biased if you like, but calling it a complicated issue [I'm not denying that it is complicated], and saying both sides are just wrong- that could describe any conflict EVER. I have a personal connection to this, and I really don't think it's up to anybody to determine whether the people who practice an ideology other than yourself are holding true to their faiths.
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:28 pm
EggaxSponge bluegrass cat EggaxSponge I have a different perspective on this now. Hamas has been firing on Israelis for the past eight years. Not to engage in war, just to kill innocent civilians. True, Israel has overstepped its boundaries more than once in this "war", but I maintain that they have the right to defend themselves. As for Hamas being a democratically elected government...Sure, Hamas has people who elect its leaders, but the people who choose to follow the ideology are radicals who want to wipe Israel off the map. Hamas separated from Fatah because Fatah thought this specific group of individuals was too radical for their organization. Bluegrass, what do you mean "one side isn't acting very muslim and the other isn't acting very christian"? confused The national religion of Israel is Judaism. Unless you're projecting your own religion on the actions of another people, or are genuinely confused, I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Oh, and Ninja, as for your comment on how Israelis are killing innocent people...it's because HAMAS is putting missile launchers on the playgrounds of schools and hiding nuclear weapons in the apartments of unknowing innocent people. Israel sent a missile in response to the one launched from the school. They had NO IDEA that the site was a place where many children were playing. Now Israel is throwing fake bombs before they throw the real ones so that civilians will run away. [Hamas has been putting civilians on the roofs of their headquarters so that the Israelis will not thrown bombs.] And now is the time for me to be the stereotypical Jew. I do not think Israel is full of hate. Before 1948, the Jews were forced out of Israel by the Palestinian Arabs and Christians. When Israel was formed by the UN, the Israeli government did not forced either of these groups to leave. Moreover, after the Six Day War when Israel acquired the Gaza Strip, Israel did not force the Palestinian Arabs to leave their homes. The only people who have had to ever leave their homes by order of the Israeli government were the Jews who had to leave the Gaza Strip three years ago when Israel gave the land back to the Palestinian Arabs. AND HAMAS KEPT THROWING BOMBS. rolleyes lol, i meant jewish. this is what happens when i post hella late. xd i still stand by what i said though. its a complicated issue and both sides are wrong. wars never solve anything, they just cause more anger. and to say that one of the sides dropping bombs and engaging in war ISN'T full of hate or anger is just silly. no one ever fires rockets out of love. stare To me, defending your own country is not firing rockets out of hate. I'm not being silly. I'm trying not to make gross generalizations and actually voice my opinion. Unlike everybody else, I'm not just labeling it as a complicated issue and am trying to actually have a concise response to the initial question. Call me biased if you like, but calling it a complicated issue [I'm not denying that it is complicated], and saying both sides are just wrong- that could describe any conflict EVER. I have a personal connection to this, and I really don't think it's up to anybody to determine whether the people who practice an ideology other than yourself are holding true to their faiths. yeah, so...because i'm not jewish, i can't have an opinion then? bc that's what that comment sounds like. btw, i'm agnostic, so i'm pretty open to whatever other people want to do. and you're right, you ARE invested in this, which is why you can't see it from a non-biased position, which is fine. but you can voice your opinion without getting all self-righteous about it. it usually makes people actually pay attention to what you're saying. bc all i got from that comment was the following: that you have the right to express your opinion, but we do not bc we're not personally invested and anything we say is passing judgment on someone else's religion. which is not true. you do not have to be jewish to know what adhering to judasim looks like. you do not have to be a muslim to know what practicing islam ought to look like. if i see a christian kicking a puppy on the street, i can say "wow...not very christian" bc its NOT. MY religion has nothing to do with whether or not THEY'RE adhering to THEIR religion. people on both sides ARE wrong. and you say the isralites are defending their country by bombing another country. fine. so why is palestine firing rockets in the first place? do you even know? and not the reason israel says they're doing it, THEIR reason for doing it. bc to THEM, its just as important as the reasons israel uses to justify launching rockets as well. the only way this situation is EVER going to be resolved is if people look @ it objectively and rationally and take BOTH SIDES into account. getting all offended and saying that you're personally invested in this and getting your feelings hurt isn't the way to get s**t done. and that's a BIG part of the problem over there right now. no one seems to want to look beyond what happened yesterday, last week, a year ago, whatever. its all about "well, THEY started it!" and "we're just DEFENDING ourselves!" and "we've been here longer than you anyway!" idk what it is about war that makes countries act like six year olds fighting over legos, but it happens every damn time.
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:52 pm
Bleg, I tried talking to my Jordanian cousin about it, but she's too immature to have a causual conversation about it. She keeps going on about how its the jewish people's fault, won't look at both sides. rolleyes
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:08 pm
bluegrass cat EggaxSponge bluegrass cat EggaxSponge I have a different perspective on this now. Hamas has been firing on Israelis for the past eight years. Not to engage in war, just to kill innocent civilians. True, Israel has overstepped its boundaries more than once in this "war", but I maintain that they have the right to defend themselves. As for Hamas being a democratically elected government...Sure, Hamas has people who elect its leaders, but the people who choose to follow the ideology are radicals who want to wipe Israel off the map. Hamas separated from Fatah because Fatah thought this specific group of individuals was too radical for their organization. Bluegrass, what do you mean "one side isn't acting very muslim and the other isn't acting very christian"? confused The national religion of Israel is Judaism. Unless you're projecting your own religion on the actions of another people, or are genuinely confused, I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Oh, and Ninja, as for your comment on how Israelis are killing innocent people...it's because HAMAS is putting missile launchers on the playgrounds of schools and hiding nuclear weapons in the apartments of unknowing innocent people. Israel sent a missile in response to the one launched from the school. They had NO IDEA that the site was a place where many children were playing. Now Israel is throwing fake bombs before they throw the real ones so that civilians will run away. [Hamas has been putting civilians on the roofs of their headquarters so that the Israelis will not thrown bombs.] And now is the time for me to be the stereotypical Jew. I do not think Israel is full of hate. Before 1948, the Jews were forced out of Israel by the Palestinian Arabs and Christians. When Israel was formed by the UN, the Israeli government did not forced either of these groups to leave. Moreover, after the Six Day War when Israel acquired the Gaza Strip, Israel did not force the Palestinian Arabs to leave their homes. The only people who have had to ever leave their homes by order of the Israeli government were the Jews who had to leave the Gaza Strip three years ago when Israel gave the land back to the Palestinian Arabs. AND HAMAS KEPT THROWING BOMBS. rolleyes lol, i meant jewish. this is what happens when i post hella late. xd i still stand by what i said though. its a complicated issue and both sides are wrong. wars never solve anything, they just cause more anger. and to say that one of the sides dropping bombs and engaging in war ISN'T full of hate or anger is just silly. no one ever fires rockets out of love. stare To me, defending your own country is not firing rockets out of hate. I'm not being silly. I'm trying not to make gross generalizations and actually voice my opinion. Unlike everybody else, I'm not just labeling it as a complicated issue and am trying to actually have a concise response to the initial question. Call me biased if you like, but calling it a complicated issue [I'm not denying that it is complicated], and saying both sides are just wrong- that could describe any conflict EVER. I have a personal connection to this, and I really don't think it's up to anybody to determine whether the people who practice an ideology other than yourself are holding true to their faiths. yeah, so...because i'm not jewish, i can't have an opinion then? bc that's what that comment sounds like. btw, i'm agnostic, so i'm pretty open to whatever other people want to do. and you're right, you ARE invested in this, which is why you can't see it from a non-biased position, which is fine. but you can voice your opinion without getting all self-righteous about it. it usually makes people actually pay attention to what you're saying. bc all i got from that comment was the following: that you have the right to express your opinion, but we do not bc we're not personally invested and anything we say is passing judgment on someone else's religion. which is not true. you do not have to be jewish to know what adhering to judasim looks like. you do not have to be a muslim to know what practicing islam ought to look like. if i see a christian kicking a puppy on the street, i can say "wow...not very christian" bc its NOT. MY religion has nothing to do with whether or not THEY'RE adhering to THEIR religion. people on both sides ARE wrong. and you say the isralites are defending their country by bombing another country. fine. so why is palestine firing rockets in the first place? do you even know? and not the reason israel says they're doing it, THEIR reason for doing it. bc to THEM, its just as important as the reasons israel uses to justify launching rockets as well. the only way this situation is EVER going to be resolved is if people look @ it objectively and rationally and take BOTH SIDES into account. getting all offended and saying that you're personally invested in this and getting your feelings hurt isn't the way to get s**t done. and that's a BIG part of the problem over there right now. no one seems to want to look beyond what happened yesterday, last week, a year ago, whatever. its all about "well, THEY started it!" and "we're just DEFENDING ourselves!" and "we've been here longer than you anyway!" idk what it is about war that makes countries act like six year olds fighting over legos, but it happens every damn time. Ahhh...I said stupid things.... Everybody is entitled to have their own opinion. But you offended me when you said that Israel is acting very Jewish by bombing other people. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I'm opinionated and I tried to actually justify my feelings on a topic. Isn't that the point of argument? You know what, screw this. I'm just kicking myself by continuing to argue my point of this argument, because obviously everybody is neutral and as a biased person, I am automatically wrong and evil.
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:18 pm
I havent the slightest whats actually going on>.<
I'm sure its silly and unnecessary though. Unfortunately i cant help the situation, so i'd rather not know about it, its easier that way.
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:08 pm
egga, you're not wrong or evil...
well, maybe a little evil. heart
i just do not want this thread to degenerate, as many posts ALL OVER THE INTERNET ARE DOING, into horrible, horrible bigotry and craziness.
debating is fine, but getting your actual feelings involved makes things dangerous, all i'm sayin'.
((so, ninja, this applies to you, too! keep your nose clean!))
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:05 am
TheBlueWarrior Bleg, I tried talking to my Jordanian cousin about it, but she's too immature to have a causual conversation about it. She keeps going on about how its the jewish people's fault, won't look at both sides. rolleyes Your Jordanian?
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:18 am
X-BLACK-FIRE-NINJA-X TheBlueWarrior Bleg, I tried talking to my Jordanian cousin about it, but she's too immature to have a causual conversation about it. She keeps going on about how its the jewish people's fault, won't look at both sides. rolleyes Your Jordanian? their cousin is, at least. xd
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