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Z e n S u r g e

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:21 am
(I apologize in advance. This is a VERY long read.)

I'm at a loss. For the past two to maybe three weeks. I've been sitting in my room in my spare time. Thinking to myself about something. However, I can never figure out if, I made the right choice, who is in the wrong, or are we both at fault in the end. Here is my story.

I was with a girl for 1 year and 3 months.

Basically, out of the course of time we were together. We had a bond, that felt like we had known each other all our lives. She had never had a real true love before, or a serious relationship. So I was her first for both of those.

Things were fine with us, till the 4th time she said she wanted to break up. Yes 4th.
1st Time, was because of the distance between us. However, she felt we could over come this because we loved one another so much.
2nd Time, was because I did not show up when we made plans for me to visit. It wasn't entirely my fault, life just threw me a huge curveball.
3rd Time, It (imo) was a mixture of. The misunderstandings, the fighting, and the lack of solved issues. (What I mean by that is, we'd sit down. Solve a problem, but it seemed like either, she wasn't putting up on her end of fixing it. Or to her, I wasn't trying hard enough.)

Now we come to the 4th Time. The 4th time she wanted to get out, with no means of waiting. She hits me with. " I feel like my love for you is starting to fade away. I don't want it to, but I don't wanna be with you." Of course, I was confused, lost, and hurt. So we got into a fight. The fight consisted of, why I was leary of her going out so much, because every time she went out with this one friend of hers. All they would do is drink. All the time. My ex wasn't a very bright girl, so I was always concerned about her, and wanted the best for her. In the end, we came to an agreement. She'd stay, if I could turn myself around. Be accepting of her going out. So I was in agreement. Well I tried to, but she just made that harder to do.

It was like, I lost a small sense of trust in her. To just, realize the "friends" she had. Weren't real friends to her. The girl who she liked hanging out with, only liked hanging with her when she was drunk. Cause she was "more fun" then. I didn't like that. TO me, that wasn't a friend. So I asked her not to drink anymore.

The milestone hit, when her birthday rolled around. She got drunk on her B-day even though she promised me she wouldn't. She ended up making out with another guy. Though she didn't betray my trust any time before this. I forgave her. I looked deep within myself, and gave her a second chance. Since to me, I believe no one is in full control of themselves when they drink. I made her promise me she wouldn't again. She promised, and told me she didn't think I should be with her though, and begged me to break up with her. I realized why she asked this, but told her if it was because she couldn't trust herself. She first had to realize I forgave her, then learn to forgive herself.

After awhile, we had alot of fights. So she started smoking, and didn't opt to tell me until we had one huge blow out before her sisters birthday. She wanted to go to her sisters party. ( She is younger than her sister. When her sister parties, she is never responsible, and the guy my ex made out with. Was her sisters ex who wasn't supposed to be there anyway since it was only supposed to be a girls only party. ) She said she felt like she had no freedom. Which was the contrary, because she always did. She just clearly, even after me explaining I had no issue with her going out as long as she was going to be responsible, didn't seem to get that. So she slapped me with a. "Either you let me go to my sisters party. Or I will stay home, smoke and drink." Clearly this put me in a lose lose situation. So I chose the lesser of the two evils.

I let her go to the party, and that was my biggest mistake. She drank anyway. Way beyond her limit, and then she got raped. She didn't plan on telling me either. Once again, I find out in the middle of a heated fight between us. In most instances, most guys would have said. " Dump her. " I however, with the tolerance and patient mind I had told her. " I forgive you. It wasn't your fault." even though ultimately in my eyes it was. She drank because she wanted to feel free, and escape burdens. When in truth, she should have known the consequences wouldn't be like the last time.

After this, she begged me to break up with her, but I didn't. By then, her love for me was dropping. I just wasn't fully aware. Within this time, I was already set and prepped to go visit her. I went up to see her, we had a blast. She said she couldn't have felt more alive, and more comfortable when I was by her side. However, when I got back home. The next day, she talks about wanting to break up. AGAIN.

This time, I was furious, upset, and lost. Everything seemed fine on the trip, but once again I realized I had been lied to. She said she didn't feel anything from our kissing. Even though she was the one engaging me for it most of the time. However, since she has an overhyped mind on what alot of things should be, and always listens to everyone else she expected it to be like in some movie or something where everything felt ignited to the highest calibur.

So after this, some time passed. We continued to fight, and finally she broke up with me. Well, some time later, she talked to me and saw my life was in shambles. So she asked me if getting back together would make me feel better. I told her don't bother doing something, you know full and well you will not enjoy. However, she did it anyway. I tried to be an even more perfect man than I was before. Like how I was 3-4 months at the start of our relationship. I did that, and everything more she could ask for. She said she was happy, but that was another lie. While we were having issues. She all of a sudden has a new male friend. One who I hadn't even heard her speak of.

She started trying to hang out with him alot. Even in most cases not taking into consideration, that we had issues we needed to resolve and her trying to make a new friendship with him was not helping my thoughts of where her mind,or heart for that matter lay. After convincing me that he was just a friend. The guy backs off. She however pitched a fit with me, saying it was not fair for me to ask her to not talk to him ever again. (Which for the record I did not, she offered to. I felt bad, and asked her was I wrong for feeling the way I did. In which she offered to stop talking to him for good. )

Her only excuse for that was. " I never realized it was a bad thing to do. " (She does/says/and shows that alot. However most of the time I let it slip, in reality though. It was terrible life style choices, and showed nobody respect on any form of level.) She stops talking to the guy, and on Super Bowl Sunday, we get into an argument. This time, I broke it off. I was not going to tolerate her behavior anymore, and from there it seemed like I was making the right choice.

However, I began to hurt. She started to be hateful, and spiteful to me. Saying she hated me, things I said which didn't even hold hostility, became reasons for her to flare up and hate me. She didn't show me respect, even going as far as to tell me. The only reason she stayed with me for the additional 6 months after. Was due to being scared I'd harm myself. (Which I never tried to, I only shouted I would during a nervous break down in a fight with her.) Well since then, I tried to do nothing but be a friend to her. I gave her space, didn't call her when she tried to sleep, and kept her informed with my life like she said she wanted.

Some days later, she tells me in an email it's best if we both split ways. Not to call, and if I did she'd ignore the call. Well yesterday I called her. After 2 days of not speaking. Thinking she would have cooled down. She says to me that, since she had stopped talking to me. She felt ecstatic, and that "we" had some growing up to do, before we should start talking to one another again. That " we both " were to blame, and that "We" needed it this way.

So after all that. I sat and wondered. "Did I make the right choice?" "Should I stop careing, if she doesn't even want to remotely get the fact that it isn't we who needs to get their act together. It's her?" I threw it to the back of my mind, but it's just something I can't help but think about every night before I sleep.

My faults in the relationship, even by my friends outlook was small. She said I was being controlling, when all I was doing was worrying over her safety in the hands of her "so called friends."

She said, I was overprotective (which I never knew was a bad thing? o.O) even though SHE looked to me, to have the answers for everything, and take responsibility for all her issues, so that SHE wouldn't go through life lost.

She also said I was overprotective due to the fact that, I didn't like some of her male friends. Who lets get for the record straight.
One of them was her sisters friend, NOT HERS, and he looked at her like the next Playboy bunny, treating her with disrespect, and giving me FURTHER reason not to like him. EVEN when I did give him a chance to prove to me he could be a nice guy around her. (Take note, even SHE hated him.)

The second guy, was a guy who had a crush on her. Yet SHE hated him, picked jokes on him for fun. Yet still called him her friend, but she treated him like crap before we even hooked up.

And the final guy was because, of her trying to be friends with him in the middle of all our issues. Not even bringing him up once, and keeping it very incognito. (Which in her idea is respectful. To not tell someone EVERYTHING about a person. Even though her boyfriend has a right to know about the friends she chooses to have, and who to keep around. When it's obvious to see the choices she makes in friends aren't all that bright -Insert Friend who only loves her when drunk-)

If any of you were in my shoes. What would you have done? Who do you think was in the wrong? And Where?
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:36 pm
Also sorry for the double post, and sorry if I placed this in the wrong spot. I know it was very very long to read. However, I just I don't quite sit well with myself. Or what happened. So it's something I felt good to let out as soon as I did.  

Z e n S u r g e


wakusei
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:09 pm
    I'm not really a relationship advice-giving person...and it's really hard to get a good handle on these types of things when one can only really get your side of things.
    But basically...I think you really need some time apart from this girl for now. Maybe one day far in the future you guys can settle things out better, but for now it sounds like there's a lot of baggage on both your parts and you need to tend to yourself and get over her. Her mistakes are hers, and yours are yours. She sounds like she wants to flit about and not settle anywhere for now, and it doesn't seem like that's exactly what you have in mind. You're not going to be able to change who she is or at least what she wants to be now, so take some me time and then reassess what you really want.
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:11 pm
...It sounds like she really doesn't want to be with you at this point, and I'm afraid you're going to have to go with the "if you love somebody, let them free" idea. It may not (and from the sounds of it, probably won't) work out between the two of you... but you may yet at least salvage a friendship out of the situation.

I wish you luck.  

aretoo
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God-Raped-Me

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:19 pm
User Image


All I needed to read was this.

Z e n S u r g e
Things were fine with us, till the 4th time she said she wanted to break up. Yes 4th.
1st Time, was because of the distance between us. However, she felt we could over come this because we loved one another so much.
2nd Time, was because I did not show up when we made plans for me to visit. It wasn't entirely my fault, life just threw me a huge curveball.
3rd Time, It (imo) was a mixture of. The misunderstandings, the fighting, and the lack of solved issues. (What I mean by that is, we'd sit down. Solve a problem, but it seemed like either, she wasn't putting up on her end of fixing it. Or to her, I wasn't trying hard enough.)


She's been trying to make excuses to get away from you. She said this 4 times in just over a year. She was trying to nicely break up with you, but you wouldn't let her. So it's time for you to move on.
User Image
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:24 pm
Wakusei: I agree with you in the sense that, there are more than two sides to a story. However, in the case of this situation. Everything I've stated, would be about the gist of it. (Not saying this for self benefit either).

On her end though, she will input, that she was miserable leading into the next 6 months. Which she never directly told me. She pretended everything was peachy keen. (The continuous off set lies) after awhile. I told her " I take what you say, as exactly what you declare it. I don't read minds. So if you say you're happy. I'm going to believe you're happy. If you say you're sad. I'll know your sad, then I can do something about it.)

In which case, she was always showing one thing, turning around showing another. There were times where I tried to leave, and she'd tell me not to cause she needed me by her side. Then when I stayed, she'd go demon on me for sticking by her.

Which lead to my confusion.

Aretoo: Yeah, from the gist of it I did gather the "I don't wanna be with you" right now ideal. It got bolder to me, once I started noticing some of her dirty little habits.

(Withholding information, even when I never asked anything. Giving me little next to no info on important situations. Screaming about the lack of privacy, even though she had like many websites, and other means of communication I knew nothing about. Yet she imploded on me, over not adding her to my Gaia friendslist when I didn't even really get on it anymore. Accusing me of hiding things. Etc)

I tried to make a friendship between us, only to be attacked during my efforts out of her "Desperation" as she put it. To get away from me.

Which resulted in the current situation. Of her pretty much isolating herself from me.
 

Z e n S u r g e


Z e n S u r g e

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:28 pm
God-Raped-Me
User Image


All I needed to read was this.

Z e n S u r g e
Things were fine with us, till the 4th time she said she wanted to break up. Yes 4th.
1st Time, was because of the distance between us. However, she felt we could over come this because we loved one another so much.
2nd Time, was because I did not show up when we made plans for me to visit. It wasn't entirely my fault, life just threw me a huge curveball.
3rd Time, It (imo) was a mixture of. The misunderstandings, the fighting, and the lack of solved issues. (What I mean by that is, we'd sit down. Solve a problem, but it seemed like either, she wasn't putting up on her end of fixing it. Or to her, I wasn't trying hard enough.)


She's been trying to make excuses to get away from you. She said this 4 times in just over a year. She was trying to nicely break up with you, but you wouldn't let her. So it's time for you to move on.
User Image


I'm not in disagreement with that. However, I forgot to add something to that since I was typing so fast. At times, where I would try to end it. Or tell her and I quote. " It's your choice. If it makes you happier to leave go ahead." She would tell me. " I don't know " and then sit and dwell on it. Only to turn back around, and say. " I'm just upset because -Insert reason ranging from. No support from friends and family. To feeling like she was losing everything if we split up. Etc- "

On a further note. I have "Moved On" at current though. The only thing that plagued my mind, was did I do the right thing. Since when I tried to leave, she got upset. Then, when I didn't she got furious.
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:28 pm
User Image

Edit: It doesn't sound like you've moved on though. Of course you did the right thing, in this situation there is no wrong unless you kill yourself or do something else crazy. Letting her go to be crazy to someone else is a good thing.
User Image
 

God-Raped-Me


Z e n S u r g e

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:36 pm
God-Raped-Me
User Image

Edit: It doesn't sound like you've moved on though. Of course you did the right thing, in this situation there is no wrong unless you kill yourself or do something else crazy. Letting her go to be crazy to someone else is a good thing.
User Image


Haha

@ Before your edit: The thing I didn't get was. If she was that desperate. Why ask me to stay? Then ask me to leave? She kept going on, and on about. " You treat me so good, how did I ever come to deserve you." " You're the best, you're so perfect." Yet, in the flip of things. She'd bring it down on me like. " Oh I'm sorry you don't make mistakes, I forgot you're god." (Even though once again, never declared I was. Just, I always tried to live up to the pedestal she placed me on. So alot of times, she'd give me some very..."horn toot" worthy compliments.) Desperation to me, is meaning you'll do anything to get away. Yet, you don't seem that desperate when you just turn back around, and come straight back ya know?

@Your Edit: Haha, let her be crazy with someone else is a good idea. Afterall, alot of my friends, and even her closest friend said I was the best thing that happened to her. Just mentally, she doesn't have her head screwed on right. So the way she lives life is kinda like...

"I live in this sheltered place, and nothing in the rest of the world is ever going to happen here." Type of people.

As far as the moving on goes. I'm doing it. Slowly but surely, however you will have some concern over people you love(d) especially if they never seem to be able to listen to sound logic, and reason.
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:54 pm
Relationships are an exchange, not a sublimation of one person to another. According to that definition, you were never in a real relationship to begin with. You were used and thrown off like cheap socks.
You made a choice to involve yourself with this person, and you must accept the consequence. If you want to remove yourself from this parasite, you must be ready to face those consequences as well.
From what I read, your character is one of a person who truly cares about the other person, despite what happens. However, this event has damaged your ability to trust to that degree. The actions of this person have planted a seed of doubt in your mind concerning all future relationships.
My advice to you, whether or not it is any good, is to cut loose and stay that way for a while. Cut out any remaining feelings for her, and live single for a while. Make sure your life is straight before you worry about dating again. If she comes back, turn her away. You gave her more chances than she had a right to, and she will get no more.
After you sort yourself out, live without regrets. Take actions you will not regret, and find the one person that will return your feelings. Do not follow the paths of a violent love (i.e. love/lust at first sight, stalking, etc.), since those will end abruptly and without warning. All good things take time, and building a love between two people can take years, even after they marry.
A good analogy would be comparing a sparkler to a log of firewood. A sparkler, while attractive and fun while it lasts, burns out in moments, whereas a log of firewood will last so much longer, regardless of how it looks. You need to find your log, and ignore the sparklers that get in the way.  

Erverain

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Z e n S u r g e

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:01 pm
Erverain
Relationships are an exchange, not a sublimation of one person to another. According to that definition, you were never in a real relationship to begin with. You were used and thrown off like cheap socks.
You made a choice to involve yourself with this person, and you must accept the consequence. If you want to remove yourself from this parasite, you must be ready to face those consequences as well.
From what I read, your character is one of a person who truly cares about the other person, despite what happens. However, this event has damaged your ability to trust to that degree. The actions of this person have planted a seed of doubt in your mind concerning all future relationships.
My advice to you, whether or not it is any good, is to cut loose and stay that way for a while. Cut out any remaining feelings for her, and live single for a while. Make sure your life is straight before you worry about dating again. If she comes back, turn her away. You gave her more chances than she had a right to, and she will get no more.
After you sort yourself out, live without regrets. Take actions you will not regret, and find the one person that will return your feelings. Do not follow the paths of a violent love (i.e. love/lust at first sight, stalking, etc.), since those will end abruptly and without warning. All good things take time, and building a love between two people can take years, even after they marry.
A good analogy would be comparing a sparkler to a log of firewood. A sparkler, while attractive and fun while it lasts, burns out in moments, whereas a log of firewood will last so much longer, regardless of how it looks. You need to find your log, and ignore the sparklers that get in the way.


Can I please make you my personal Jesus? Haha I kid I kid. You are absolutely right though. I couldn't agree with you more. I also like that analogy of the Sparkler and the Log. I'm going to save that in my book of Quotes, Metaphors, and Analogies.  
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:44 am
I see the situation is pretty much resolved.
I'd just like to say this though - You shouldn't be with someone who you're trying to change from the start.
Too many times people fall in love with the idea of someone instead of the person they're actually with.

Also, I don't think it's ever a good idea to accept someone as your girlfriend/boyfriend when their motivation for dating you is if it would make you feel better.
That just shows that they aren't taking the relationship seriously but, rather trying to use it to get through an awkward or difficult situation.  

Alarias

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MiroIsBored

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:20 am
oh man... this girl sounds like my sister-in-law sweatdrop You certainly did the right thing. It seemed pretty obvious that she wanted out... or at least she didn't want a relationship as serious as what you have to offer.

While I can't say with absolute certainty without actually knowing the girl, judging from what was said about her, I think I know her type. The type I'm thinking of usually wants to be in a relationship for the conveniences of it but doesn't want to be "dragged down" by the responsibilities (hence her insistence on breaking-up while trying to keep it together at the same time). She also seems dependent on being in a relationship... not because of wanting it to work or wanting someone to care for and look after her, but rather just to be able to say "I have a boyfriend", which is pretty common for those who are new to dating. I remember it being considered some kind of status symbol when I was in high school rolleyes

From the ways she reacted to different situations, it's possible she has personal issues of self-victimization and guilt-tripping as well... there is no winning with those kinds of people. No matter what you do they're going to give you hell for it, at which point you need to think of what would be best for you rather than trying to do what will please them because nothing will make them happy.
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:12 am
Sorry, my eyes began to bleed about two lines in....
My only advice is...do what your heart tells you! Whatever that means....  

shiny dollar

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