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 Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:09 pm
cool4 Kain1334 cool4 Atheist believe things come from an infinite series of events. it's not a cause of nothing. We say we don't know where it started, we just don't believe the blank part to be a omnipresent being. doesn't mean we can't have morals or an idea of right and wrong. The universe is expanding, so we know there was a starting point, and an event. Not only that but every explanation given to try and explain an infinite universe has failed, its like the story I told, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Even in the theory of evolution one needs a starting point. Now to the morals and ideas of right and wrong. The argument isn't you can't have them, its that you can't have universal right and wrong, only subjective right and wrong, right and wrong that differs between people. Which means you can't really say Hitler was evil, because he believed he was in the right, because there is nothing other than other peoples opinions to tell him he was wrong. Ravi Zacharias explains it Like this : if there is a wrong, theres a right, if theres a right, then there is a moral basis in which you can put wrong and right, and if there is a moral basis, there must be a moral giver. If there is no moral giver, there is no moral basis, if there is no moral basis there is no right, and if there is no right, there is no wrong..(wrong and right being: Good and Evil) I believe Morals Aren't Built into the fabric of time. It's more they are a result of Nurture. The way one was raised. I'm assuming you were raised to Follow the rules layed down by Religion. I learned not to touch the hot stove by experience and what my parents taught me to be right and wrong. So Morals can come from something other then The Bible. So what's the starting point in creationism. There's nothing solid with just god. You end up having to go back to faith. And Blind Faith will never work for me. How old do you think the world is? (aka subjective morality) C.S. Lewis in his book 'Mere Christianity' covers that argument, and says that some of it is by what is taught, but notice the central point in every moral rule one follows is the same. For example, one Honors Honor, and dishonors dishonesty. Everything physical needs something outside of itself to explain its existence, (our mothers and fathers explains our existence), it cannot explain it by itself. I am not here because of myself, the universe is not here because of itself. (I would have needed to exist previously to be able to cause my own existence which leads you into a self defeating statement) So anything physical needs something outside itself to explain itself. And only God is big enough to fill in the picture. It is not blind faith, it is faith to say that God created the heavens and the earth. Not all faith is blind, you can have certain evidence and still have faith. I would say around 6thousand years old or so, but I honestly can't say I haven't really looked into the age of the world. (carbon dating can be thousands and even millions of years off, so it really can't be trusted)
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Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:26 pm
Kain1334 cool4 Kain1334 cool4 Atheist believe things come from an infinite series of events. it's not a cause of nothing. We say we don't know where it started, we just don't believe the blank part to be a omnipresent being. doesn't mean we can't have morals or an idea of right and wrong. The universe is expanding, so we know there was a starting point, and an event. Not only that but every explanation given to try and explain an infinite universe has failed, its like the story I told, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Even in the theory of evolution one needs a starting point. Now to the morals and ideas of right and wrong. The argument isn't you can't have them, its that you can't have universal right and wrong, only subjective right and wrong, right and wrong that differs between people. Which means you can't really say Hitler was evil, because he believed he was in the right, because there is nothing other than other peoples opinions to tell him he was wrong. Ravi Zacharias explains it Like this : if there is a wrong, theres a right, if theres a right, then there is a moral basis in which you can put wrong and right, and if there is a moral basis, there must be a moral giver. If there is no moral giver, there is no moral basis, if there is no moral basis there is no right, and if there is no right, there is no wrong..(wrong and right being: Good and Evil) I believe Morals Aren't Built into the fabric of time. It's more they are a result of Nurture. The way one was raised. I'm assuming you were raised to Follow the rules layed down by Religion. I learned not to touch the hot stove by experience and what my parents taught me to be right and wrong. So Morals can come from something other then The Bible. So what's the starting point in creationism. There's nothing solid with just god. You end up having to go back to faith. And Blind Faith will never work for me. How old do you think the world is? (aka subjective morality) C.S. Lewis in his book 'Mere Christianity' covers that argument, and says that some of it is by what is taught, but notice the central point in every moral rule one follows is the same. For example, one Honors Honor, and dishonors dishonesty. Everything physical needs something outside of itself to explain its existence, (our mothers and fathers explains our existence), it cannot explain it by itself. I am not here because of myself, the universe is not here because of itself. (I would have needed to exist previously to be able to cause my own existence which leads you into a self defeating statement) So anything physical needs something outside itself to explain itself. And only God is big enough to fill in the picture. It is not blind faith, it is faith to say that God created the heavens and the earth. Not all faith is blind, you can have certain evidence and still have faith. I would say around 6thousand years old or so, but I honestly can't say I haven't really looked into the age of the world. (carbon dating can be thousands and even millions of years off, so it really can't be trusted) But then, where did God come from? And you honestly believe the earth is only 6 thousand years old? Yes, carbon dating can be off.... when the item tested is incredibly old... much much older than 6 thousand years.
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:58 pm
Deppfan Teague Kain1334 cool4 Kain1334 cool4 Atheist believe things come from an infinite series of events. it's not a cause of nothing. We say we don't know where it started, we just don't believe the blank part to be a omnipresent being. doesn't mean we can't have morals or an idea of right and wrong. The universe is expanding, so we know there was a starting point, and an event. Not only that but every explanation given to try and explain an infinite universe has failed, its like the story I told, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Even in the theory of evolution one needs a starting point. Now to the morals and ideas of right and wrong. The argument isn't you can't have them, its that you can't have universal right and wrong, only subjective right and wrong, right and wrong that differs between people. Which means you can't really say Hitler was evil, because he believed he was in the right, because there is nothing other than other peoples opinions to tell him he was wrong. Ravi Zacharias explains it Like this : if there is a wrong, theres a right, if theres a right, then there is a moral basis in which you can put wrong and right, and if there is a moral basis, there must be a moral giver. If there is no moral giver, there is no moral basis, if there is no moral basis there is no right, and if there is no right, there is no wrong..(wrong and right being: Good and Evil) I believe Morals Aren't Built into the fabric of time. It's more they are a result of Nurture. The way one was raised. I'm assuming you were raised to Follow the rules layed down by Religion. I learned not to touch the hot stove by experience and what my parents taught me to be right and wrong. So Morals can come from something other then The Bible. So what's the starting point in creationism. There's nothing solid with just god. You end up having to go back to faith. And Blind Faith will never work for me. How old do you think the world is? (aka subjective morality) C.S. Lewis in his book 'Mere Christianity' covers that argument, and says that some of it is by what is taught, but notice the central point in every moral rule one follows is the same. For example, one Honors Honor, and dishonors dishonesty. Everything physical needs something outside of itself to explain its existence, (our mothers and fathers explains our existence), it cannot explain it by itself. I am not here because of myself, the universe is not here because of itself. (I would have needed to exist previously to be able to cause my own existence which leads you into a self defeating statement) So anything physical needs something outside itself to explain itself. And only God is big enough to fill in the picture. It is not blind faith, it is faith to say that God created the heavens and the earth. Not all faith is blind, you can have certain evidence and still have faith. I would say around 6thousand years old or so, but I honestly can't say I haven't really looked into the age of the world. (carbon dating can be thousands and even millions of years off, so it really can't be trusted) But then, where did God come from? And you honestly believe the earth is only 6 thousand years old? Yes, carbon dating can be off.... when the item tested is incredibly old... much much older than 6 thousand years. As I explained earlier physical existence needs an explanation. The reason it does is because it is inside time, it is spiritual(God) that is outside time, in which is the only thing that can explain physical existence. Timelessness itself is hard for us to imagine for the same reason it is hard for us to imagine an emotion we have never felt. Its because we have never felt it. I haven't studied it enough to be sure.
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:18 pm
Kain1334 Deppfan Teague Kain1334 cool4 Kain1334 cool4 Atheist believe things come from an infinite series of events. it's not a cause of nothing. We say we don't know where it started, we just don't believe the blank part to be a omnipresent being. doesn't mean we can't have morals or an idea of right and wrong. The universe is expanding, so we know there was a starting point, and an event. Not only that but every explanation given to try and explain an infinite universe has failed, its like the story I told, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Even in the theory of evolution one needs a starting point. Now to the morals and ideas of right and wrong. The argument isn't you can't have them, its that you can't have universal right and wrong, only subjective right and wrong, right and wrong that differs between people. Which means you can't really say Hitler was evil, because he believed he was in the right, because there is nothing other than other peoples opinions to tell him he was wrong. Ravi Zacharias explains it Like this : if there is a wrong, theres a right, if theres a right, then there is a moral basis in which you can put wrong and right, and if there is a moral basis, there must be a moral giver. If there is no moral giver, there is no moral basis, if there is no moral basis there is no right, and if there is no right, there is no wrong..(wrong and right being: Good and Evil) I believe Morals Aren't Built into the fabric of time. It's more they are a result of Nurture. The way one was raised. I'm assuming you were raised to Follow the rules layed down by Religion. I learned not to touch the hot stove by experience and what my parents taught me to be right and wrong. So Morals can come from something other then The Bible. So what's the starting point in creationism. There's nothing solid with just god. You end up having to go back to faith. And Blind Faith will never work for me. How old do you think the world is? (aka subjective morality) C.S. Lewis in his book 'Mere Christianity' covers that argument, and says that some of it is by what is taught, but notice the central point in every moral rule one follows is the same. For example, one Honors Honor, and dishonors dishonesty. Everything physical needs something outside of itself to explain its existence, (our mothers and fathers explains our existence), it cannot explain it by itself. I am not here because of myself, the universe is not here because of itself. (I would have needed to exist previously to be able to cause my own existence which leads you into a self defeating statement) So anything physical needs something outside itself to explain itself. And only God is big enough to fill in the picture. It is not blind faith, it is faith to say that God created the heavens and the earth. Not all faith is blind, you can have certain evidence and still have faith. I would say around 6thousand years old or so, but I honestly can't say I haven't really looked into the age of the world. (carbon dating can be thousands and even millions of years off, so it really can't be trusted) But then, where did God come from? And you honestly believe the earth is only 6 thousand years old? Yes, carbon dating can be off.... when the item tested is incredibly old... much much older than 6 thousand years. As I explained earlier physical existence needs an explanation. The reason it does is because it is inside time, it is spiritual(God) that is outside time, in which is the only thing that can explain physical existence. Timelessness itself is hard for us to imagine for the same reason it is hard for us to imagine an emotion we have never felt. Its because we have never felt it. I haven't studied it enough to be sure. Pffft. Sounds like a cop-out to me.
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Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:37 pm
Curse-of-the-Phoenix @ Moonie and Deppfan: Deppfan i know your not a Christian so i will tell you this, my belief requires you to give your full belief in God and nothing else no Big-Bang no Allah just you and God. excuse me, the higher being of Jews, Christians and Muslims is all the same being. just has a different name
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Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:54 pm
Arties Curse-of-the-Phoenix @ Moonie and Deppfan: Deppfan i know your not a Christian so i will tell you this, my belief requires you to give your full belief in God and nothing else no Big-Bang no Allah just you and God. excuse me, the higher being of Jews, Christians and Muslims is all the same being. just has a different name No it is not, there are major differences but call me close minded I have not read the Koran through and I have not read The Origin of Life, I however know that Muslims follow severely different rules than Christians, heck even if you look at denominational differences in Christianity there are some big differences. so no they are not the same, no way in hell am i going to bow down to Allah, because "Hes the same as God" now back to the subject Now i am just going to address one problem with Deppfan's statement about Radio carbon dating, it is very accurate if... it always comes down to that if... the object in question is less than 3000 years old otherwise its useless and you need to find another method.
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