Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

[WoodSorrelWitch]

And this one?

Quote:

130:14-17. Joseph Smith prophesies that "there of those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till Christ comes." He prophesies "in the name of the Lord God - let it be written: that the Son of Man will not come in the heavens till I am 85 years old, 48 years hence or about 1890." (The official historians have deleted the last phrase, beginning with "48 years" from the church history, but it is contained in the original diary.) The version in D&C 130 is phrased negatively, i.e., Christ will not come before 1890. It is also made conditional on Joseph Smith living to the age of 85. Joseph Smith says (v 16) that it might merely mean that if he lives to 85 he will go where Christ is, and therefore see his face. But that interpretation would not make sense if the revelation is in response to Joseph Smith's inquiry about the time of the second coming (v 14).

So Smith is saying that Jesus will not come until he was 85 years old.

But,

Luke 12:39-40 (NIV) "But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."

And

Isaiah 8:20 (NIV)
20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.  

[Shadows-shine]

PawzPrint

And this one?

Quote:

130:14-17. Joseph Smith prophesies that "there of those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till Christ comes." He prophesies "in the name of the Lord God - let it be written: that the Son of Man will not come in the heavens till I am 85 years old, 48 years hence or about 1890." (The official historians have deleted the last phrase, beginning with "48 years" from the church history, but it is contained in the original diary.) The version in D&C 130 is phrased negatively, i.e., Christ will not come before 1890. It is also made conditional on Joseph Smith living to the age of 85. Joseph Smith says (v 16) that it might merely mean that if he lives to 85 he will go where Christ is, and therefore see his face. But that interpretation would not make sense if the revelation is in response to Joseph Smith's inquiry about the time of the second coming (v 14).

So Smith is saying that Jesus will not come until he was 85 years old.

But,

Luke 12:39-40 (NIV) "But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."

And

Isaiah 8:20 (NIV)
20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.

Where are you pulling this information from? That revelation never revealed the time of the second coming. It was WITHHELD from Jospeh. Read it closely! D&C 130:14-17-

Quote:

14 I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following:
15 Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter.
16 I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face.
17 I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time.

God never told Joseph Smith the time of the Second Coming. The words "seeing the face of the Son of Man at the age 85" could mean any thing. It didn't mean that Joseph Smith was prophesying that that was the time of the Second Coming. I see the Lord's face every day. It's called paintings or visions. So, we don't know what was meant by Joseph Smith being able to see the face of the Lord at 85 years old, and since he died before that age, it's irrelevant for now. Plus, notice in verse 16, where Joseph said that he was left to make up his own mind that he would either see the face of the Lord when he died or at some previous appearance that the Lord had made. Then look at verse 17, Joseph said the Lord will not come any sooner than the time that he (Joseph) turns 85. He never said any thing about the date and time of the return after (or if) he turned 85. So your conclusion about the prophesy is wrong. You actually have to read the scriptures as a whole for them to make sense instead of just picking pieces out of them and then basing assumptions about them.  

[WoodSorrelWitch]

and this?

Quote:

History of the Church

1. Prophecy about Jesus' return within 56 years - "President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. He then gave a relation of some of the circumstances attending us while journeying to Zion--our trials, sufferings; and said God had not designed all this for nothing, but He had it in remembrance yet; and it was the will of God that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh--even fifty-six years should wind up the scene." (History of the Church, vol. 2, p. 189).

Jesus did not return within fifty-six years when 1891 arrived.  

[Shadows-shine]

PawzPrint

and this?

Quote:

History of the Church

1. Prophecy about Jesus' return within 56 years - "President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. He then gave a relation of some of the circumstances attending us while journeying to Zion--our trials, sufferings; and said God had not designed all this for nothing, but He had it in remembrance yet; and it was the will of God that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh--even fifty-six years should wind up the scene." (History of the Church, vol. 2, p. 189).

Jesus did not return within fifty-six years when 1891 arrived.

I repeat the History of the Church that you are quoting from is NOT doctrine, it's NOT scripture either, so therefore it shouldn't be used as a source when debating doctrine of the Church. So this was not a revelation from Joseph Smith.  

[WoodSorrelWitch]

well, a look at a web definition of prophecy leads me to believe that he did indeed make a prophecy about Christ's return:

Definitions of prophecy on the Web:

* knowledge of the future (usually said to be obtained from a divine source)
* a prediction uttered under divine inspiration


The quote in my last post gives me an implication that it was prophecy.


And out of curiosity, would you be able to link me to an LDS site(s) that you trust to be accurate? I understand that I can google stuff all day but in the end, because I am not of the LDS, I have no clue if what I'm reading is accurate or inaccurate....  

[Shadows-shine]

I see nothing in your last posts that indicates that Joseph Smith made a prophecy about the the Second Coming. Just a bunch of twisted, misinformation about what was said and what it meant. Not every thing that men that are called of God utter is divinely inspired. They are still men and still speak idle chit chat, like all of us.


And the websites for the Church are

www.lds.org

www.mormon.org


I was wondering if you could link me to your sources that you have been using also.