The Cross

[Someoneiknow]

Saint Crazy S Requiem

Might I point out that this thread was not necessarily made for debating - the OP did say he was just "airing some thoughts".

A 'debate' implies that there has to be a winner, one person proving themselves right, and this is not the case. It is in the discussion forum, which means any person can express what they think freely.

I just thought I would remind you all that nobody has to win here, except that God is glorified. There's no reason to get carried away.

Kudos to everybody for contributing their thoughts.
^^

You made a false definition of the word "debate". This would be the accurate definition:

Quote:

a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints

In there there is no mention of having one party win over the other. This is merely a debate over better understanding. The OP knew that others would not feel the same as them, and so they left it open to interpretation. This is what Gaia is, debate and RP. So I'm sorry that you misinterpreted the intentions, but we are not here to conquer, but understand each other wholey.  

[thrashmetaljunkie]

Someoneiknow

... for most protestants do many things out of ignorance. They will not be condemned for their lack of knowledge. But I know the pain they will feel when they realize what they have done, and I wish for them to understand before that time.

i take offense to this. the wording is quite offensive to any protestant. out of ignorance? so what am i ignorant about? what are you ignorant about? you should be more careful with your choice of words. but having the audacity to think that YOU are right and they are all wrong is quite insane. if you think about it, how do you KNOW that you are right? for ever view there is an opposing view, and no matter how hard you try to prove you are right, they will try just as hard to prove you wrong. you must understand that people will only believe and understand what they are willing to. that is where faith comes into play. I will not question your faith, nor would i ever dream to. i will not sit here and try and tell you that you are wrong either, because that would be ignorant of me to completely discredit your intelligence, your beliefs, and your views. it would in short, be a total d**k move. with that respect, i ask that you wouldnt try and tell me that i am wrong. We as christians are always saying "Oh, we are right, everyone else is wrong, they are going to hell," but hold up a second. yes John 3:16 is a pivotal verse in that belief, however, Allah could very well be God, who is Yahweh. Same god, different set of beliefs. Just like the denominations of christianity, same savior, different fine print. but flat out saying that so many people are wrong is quite offensive. I am open minded to other religions and what other people have to say, though i choose christianity for myself because of the things i have seen and gone through in my life. perhaps you should try the same open minded approach. you are intelligent, and i would never dare to question it. but you seem to be quite closed minded, and it blinds you from seeing others view points as well. losen up a bit, no war is ever won by rashness. Had Brittan not been so cocky and rash, they may have beat us in the revolution. take time to understand the other side, so that you can gather up your view to compare it to theirs to "show them" how they are wrong, if they truly are. but dont try and tell me i am wrong, because i already know that i am wrong about a lot of things, but dont think you are right about everything either because no one but Christ has it right.  

[Someoneiknow]

thrashmetaljunkie

Someoneiknow

... for most protestants do many things out of ignorance. They will not be condemned for their lack of knowledge. But I know the pain they will feel when they realize what they have done, and I wish for them to understand before that time.

i take offense to this. the wording is quite offensive to any protestant. out of ignorance? so what am i ignorant about? what are you ignorant about? you should be more careful with your choice of words. but having the audacity to think that YOU are right and they are all wrong is quite insane. if you think about it, how do you KNOW that you are right? for ever view there is an opposing view, and no matter how hard you try to prove you are right, they will try just as hard to prove you wrong. you must understand that people will only believe and understand what they are willing to. that is where faith comes into play. I will not question your faith, nor would i ever dream to. i will not sit here and try and tell you that you are wrong either, because that would be ignorant of me to completely discredit your intelligence, your beliefs, and your views. it would in short, be a total d**k move. with that respect, i ask that you wouldnt try and tell me that i am wrong. We as christians are always saying "Oh, we are right, everyone else is wrong, they are going to hell," but hold up a second. yes John 3:16 is a pivotal verse in that belief, however, Allah could very well be God, who is Yahweh. Same god, different set of beliefs. Just like the denominations of christianity, same savior, different fine print. but flat out saying that so many people are wrong is quite offensive. I am open minded to other religions and what other people have to say, though i choose christianity for myself because of the things i have seen and gone through in my life. perhaps you should try the same open minded approach. you are intelligent, and i would never dare to question it. but you seem to be quite closed minded, and it blinds you from seeing others view points as well. losen up a bit, no war is ever won by rashness. Had Brittan not been so cocky and rash, they may have beat us in the revolution. take time to understand the other side, so that you can gather up your view to compare it to theirs to "show them" how they are wrong, if they truly are. but dont try and tell me i am wrong, because i already know that i am wrong about a lot of things, but dont think you are right about everything either because no one but Christ has it right.

Well you just proved that you will take things way out of context from a single phrase. I'm actually quite open minded. Your religion and my religion are quite similar, you believe that God once talked to man, I believe He still does. This is the main point that so many of you get angry about. When everything is boiled down, all the bigotry and misunderstanding taken away, that is what truly annoys so many, is that I believe in modern revelation.
It is ignorance in my eyes. So many protestants refuse to see, but just believe. I'm not saying you specifically, but I'm speaking of the 90% who feel that they are saved by ignorance alone. They can show up on easter and christmas, say a few prayers, and God will just bless them and ignore their many sins that they have committed throughout the course of their life. This is what was meant, not a difference in religions, although it can be felt that way, but the ignorance that so many protestants think will gain them passage into heaven. You can't just say a few words, but you must walk the walk of a true Christian.  

[thrashmetaljunkie]

Someoneiknow

thrashmetaljunkie

Someoneiknow

... for most protestants do many things out of ignorance. They will not be condemned for their lack of knowledge. But I know the pain they will feel when they realize what they have done, and I wish for them to understand before that time.

i take offense to this. the wording is quite offensive to any protestant. out of ignorance? so what am i ignorant about? what are you ignorant about? you should be more careful with your choice of words. but having the audacity to think that YOU are right and they are all wrong is quite insane. if you think about it, how do you KNOW that you are right? for ever view there is an opposing view, and no matter how hard you try to prove you are right, they will try just as hard to prove you wrong. you must understand that people will only believe and understand what they are willing to. that is where faith comes into play. I will not question your faith, nor would i ever dream to. i will not sit here and try and tell you that you are wrong either, because that would be ignorant of me to completely discredit your intelligence, your beliefs, and your views. it would in short, be a total d**k move. with that respect, i ask that you wouldnt try and tell me that i am wrong. We as christians are always saying "Oh, we are right, everyone else is wrong, they are going to hell," but hold up a second. yes John 3:16 is a pivotal verse in that belief, however, Allah could very well be God, who is Yahweh. Same god, different set of beliefs. Just like the denominations of christianity, same savior, different fine print. but flat out saying that so many people are wrong is quite offensive. I am open minded to other religions and what other people have to say, though i choose christianity for myself because of the things i have seen and gone through in my life. perhaps you should try the same open minded approach. you are intelligent, and i would never dare to question it. but you seem to be quite closed minded, and it blinds you from seeing others view points as well. losen up a bit, no war is ever won by rashness. Had Brittan not been so cocky and rash, they may have beat us in the revolution. take time to understand the other side, so that you can gather up your view to compare it to theirs to "show them" how they are wrong, if they truly are. but dont try and tell me i am wrong, because i already know that i am wrong about a lot of things, but dont think you are right about everything either because no one but Christ has it right.

Well you just proved that you will take things way out of context from a single phrase. I'm actually quite open minded. Your religion and my religion are quite similar, you believe that God once talked to man, I believe He still does. This is the main point that so many of you get angry about. When everything is boiled down, all the bigotry and misunderstanding taken away, that is what truly annoys so many, is that I believe in modern revelation.
It is ignorance in my eyes. So many protestants refuse to see, but just believe. I'm not saying you specifically, but I'm speaking of the 90% who feel that they are saved by ignorance alone. They can show up on easter and christmas, say a few prayers, and God will just bless them and ignore their many sins that they have committed throughout the course of their life. This is what was meant, not a difference in religions, although it can be felt that way, but the ignorance that so many protestants think will gain them passage into heaven. You can't just say a few words, but you must walk the walk of a true Christian.

notice i said your choice of words. (too lazy to go through making it only that) however THAT i agree with. im sure i touched on that similarly earlier on that people just SAY they are christian. but christmas and easter dont count. not anymore. it sickens me to see how full the parking lot is on easter but not every other sunday.  

[WoodSorrelWitch]

Someoneiknow

PawzPrint

Someoneiknow

PawzPrint

Someoneiknow

I know Christ is up there looking down right now say "all they can do is worship my death device and praise my death?" We should celebrate His life and all the things He taught and did, not just the act of Him dying.

Do you know why He died for us? His death is very important. Without Jesus giving up His life and dying for us, we would not have life. We would still be dead to sin.
When I give praise to Jesus, I pray thanks for doing what He did. Because it was in an act of love that He died for us.

So you worship Him because you think that's the ONLY thing He did for us?

Of course not; I know He has done many things for us :3
You were focusing on His death and so I commented about it.
I also know His death means little without His resurrection. Both events, together, are very important.

Those two aren't the most important though. They are a string of events that make Christ, the Christ. He has taught many things, but many protestants do not pull out except on rare circumstances, the sower and the seeds, or other such parables.

Honestly, I don't know what the most important thing is. But I firmly believe that Jesus' death and resurrection are extremely important. And if I wear a cross around my neck, it's only one of the many reminders to myself why I believe what I believe.

And that's why the Bible is referred to as a living document.
Because the things in it can have a practical meaning for us today even though it was written so long ago.

 

[WoodSorrelWitch]

Someoneiknow

PawzPrint

Before it gets a little too out of hand ^^;;
I feel a bit led to point to Romans 13.
That's all :3

Debate can still be full of love. Many tend to labor under the delusion that the two cannot coincide, but they more often than not, do. Elsewise, why would I waste my time to point out my thoughts for others if I didn't do it out of love? I wouldn't fight so hard if I felt it was a lost cause.

I know :3 It was just kind of a reminder to all of us that it's a friendly debate and not a war.

 

[Someoneiknow]

PawzPrint

Someoneiknow

PawzPrint

Someoneiknow

PawzPrint

Someoneiknow

I know Christ is up there looking down right now say "all they can do is worship my death device and praise my death?" We should celebrate His life and all the things He taught and did, not just the act of Him dying.

Do you know why He died for us? His death is very important. Without Jesus giving up His life and dying for us, we would not have life. We would still be dead to sin.
When I give praise to Jesus, I pray thanks for doing what He did. Because it was in an act of love that He died for us.

So you worship Him because you think that's the ONLY thing He did for us?

Of course not; I know He has done many things for us :3
You were focusing on His death and so I commented about it.
I also know His death means little without His resurrection. Both events, together, are very important.

Those two aren't the most important though. They are a string of events that make Christ, the Christ. He has taught many things, but many protestants do not pull out except on rare circumstances, the sower and the seeds, or other such parables.

Honestly, I don't know what the most important thing is. But I firmly believe that Jesus' death and resurrection are extremely important. And if I wear a cross around my neck, it's only one of the many reminders to myself why I believe what I believe.

And that's why the Bible is referred to as a living document.
Because the things in it can have a practical meaning for us today even though it was written so long ago.

You apparently don't know what a living document is. A "living document" is a document that can have amendments made to it, like the Constitution for example. God has laid down His law, and it is unchanging, so it is not a "living document".

That's fine if the cross reminds you of Christ, but I feel for most Christians, it's a fashion statement.  

[Someoneiknow]

PawzPrint

Someoneiknow

PawzPrint

Before it gets a little too out of hand ^^;;
I feel a bit led to point to Romans 13.
That's all :3

Debate can still be full of love. Many tend to labor under the delusion that the two cannot coincide, but they more often than not, do. Elsewise, why would I waste my time to point out my thoughts for others if I didn't do it out of love? I wouldn't fight so hard if I felt it was a lost cause.

I know :3 It was just kind of a reminder to all of us that it's a friendly debate and not a war.

Oh, I wasn't making a war, but I think words written on a screen can be often misinterpreted for what they mean.

I think that should be a chinese parable.  

[WoodSorrelWitch]

Someoneiknow

You apparently don't know what a living document is. A "living document" is a document that can have amendments made to it, like the Constitution for example. God has laid down His law, and it is unchanging, so it is not a "living document".

That's fine if the cross reminds you of Christ, but I feel for most Christians, it's a fashion statement.

No need to be rude in telling me what I do and don't understand.
I think you're looking at a worldly definition of 'living document'.

I see the Bible as a living document because:
God can speak to us through His Word, the Bible is still practical even though it was written so long ago, the Bible is meant for people everywhere of all ages and races (not just one group of people. the whole world is it's audience), the Bible reaches to you through any emotion anyone is capable of feeling.
It's a living document because God, who guides us, is a Living God. The Holy Spirit is within us and nothing can separate us from it. The Spirit who guided the ones who wrote the Bible guide us today.


You said that the Bible is not a living document. So is it a dead document? Does it not apply to us today? If His Word is not alive, does that mean you are implying that God Himself is not alive and that God is dead?

 

[WoodSorrelWitch]

Someoneiknow

PawzPrint

Someoneiknow

PawzPrint

Before it gets a little too out of hand ^^;;
I feel a bit led to point to Romans 13.
That's all :3

Debate can still be full of love. Many tend to labor under the delusion that the two cannot coincide, but they more often than not, do. Elsewise, why would I waste my time to point out my thoughts for others if I didn't do it out of love? I wouldn't fight so hard if I felt it was a lost cause.

I know :3 It was just kind of a reminder to all of us that it's a friendly debate and not a war.

Oh, I wasn't making a war, but I think words written on a screen can be often misinterpreted for what they mean.

I think that should be a chinese parable.

Or common sense.

 

[Someoneiknow]

PawzPrint

Someoneiknow

You apparently don't know what a living document is. A "living document" is a document that can have amendments made to it, like the Constitution for example. God has laid down His law, and it is unchanging, so it is not a "living document".

That's fine if the cross reminds you of Christ, but I feel for most Christians, it's a fashion statement.

No need to be rude in telling me what I do and don't understand.
I think you're looking at a worldly definition of 'living document'.

I see the Bible as a living document because:
God can speak to us through His Word, the Bible is still practical even though it was written so long ago, the Bible is meant for people everywhere of all ages and races (not just one group of people. the whole world is it's audience), the Bible reaches to you through any emotion anyone is capable of feeling.
It's a living document because God, who guides us, is a Living God. The Holy Spirit is within us and nothing can separate us from it. The Spirit who guided the ones who wrote the Bible guide us today.


You said that the Bible is not a living document. So is it a dead document? Does it not apply to us today? If His Word is not alive, does that mean you are implying that God Himself is not alive and that God is dead?

Way to make up your own definition to an established phrase. Spoken like an ignorant Christian who tries to make up things to fit their own feelings and thought about scripture. This is unnecessary, considering Christ established enough truth a logic and you don't need to make stuff up to make it fit what you want.

Also spoken like an ignorant Christian. You think the world is all white and black, but it's not. It's not, "living or dead document". It's not split into an axiom like that. It's just "a document". It fits today's standards not because it's living in and of itself, but because the scriptures were vague so that they could fit in many different circumstances.

Oh, and before you get butt hurt, I wasn't stating you were ignorant, because I feel you are not, but you are making a great show doing the typical thing that 80 percent of protestants do, make things up and call it law to fit their own means, and then state "God wanted it that way". I'm used to it, because so many people do it, and it's a ridiculous practice. Debate with what exists and what's there, don't make stuff up and say it hold credibility because you said so.  

[WoodSorrelWitch]

Someoneiknow

PawzPrint

Someoneiknow

You apparently don't know what a living document is. A "living document" is a document that can have amendments made to it, like the Constitution for example. God has laid down His law, and it is unchanging, so it is not a "living document".

That's fine if the cross reminds you of Christ, but I feel for most Christians, it's a fashion statement.

No need to be rude in telling me what I do and don't understand.
I think you're looking at a worldly definition of 'living document'.

I see the Bible as a living document because:
God can speak to us through His Word, the Bible is still practical even though it was written so long ago, the Bible is meant for people everywhere of all ages and races (not just one group of people. the whole world is it's audience), the Bible reaches to you through any emotion anyone is capable of feeling.
It's a living document because God, who guides us, is a Living God. The Holy Spirit is within us and nothing can separate us from it. The Spirit who guided the ones who wrote the Bible guide us today.


You said that the Bible is not a living document. So is it a dead document? Does it not apply to us today? If His Word is not alive, does that mean you are implying that God Himself is not alive and that God is dead?

Way to make up your own definition to an established phrase. Spoken like an ignorant Christian who tries to make up things to fit their own feelings and thought about scripture. This is unnecessary, considering Christ established enough truth a logic and you don't need to make stuff up to make it fit what you want.

Also spoken like an ignorant Christian. You think the world is all white and black, but it's not. It's not, "living or dead document". It's not split into an axiom like that. It's just "a document". It fits today's standards not because it's living in and of itself, but because the scriptures were vague so that they could fit in many different circumstances.

Oh, and before you get butt hurt, I wasn't stating you were ignorant, because I feel you are not, but you are making a great show doing the typical thing that 80 percent of protestants do, make things up and call it law to fit their own means, and then state "God wanted it that way". I'm used to it, because so many people do it, and it's a ridiculous practice. Debate with what exists and what's there, don't make stuff up and say it hold credibility because you said so.

Okay

 

[Broken_Doll08]

I know this isn't completely on topic, but people have tried to tell me that the cross is actually a pagan symbol and Jesus actually died on a "stake." What's up with that?  

[Shadows-shine]

Broken_Doll08

I know this isn't completely on topic, but people have tried to tell me that the cross is actually a pagan symbol and Jesus actually died on a "stake." What's up with that?

Define pagan though...Pagan is just a blanket term. The five point star, often associated with the pentagram and witch craft, is actually a biblical symbol.