Legalism

[emorhconom esor]

Legalism in moderation is fine but it can run one's life. It can even go so far as to become a stumbling block when it comes to one's walk with God. Legalism is one of the many reasons why Christ had a problem with the Pharisees and Sadducees. They took God's law to the point that it actually came inbetween them and God. They became so blinded by the Law that they wouldn't do good things for others. It got to the point that it was illegal for a woman to look in a mirror on the Sabbath because she might pluck a gray hair, which they considered work. In the following scriptures Christ deals with the legalism of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Matthew 12:1-14
"At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, 'Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.'
He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.'
Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, they asked him, 'Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?'
He said to them, 'If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.'
Then he said to the man, 'Stretch out your hand.' So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other. But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus."

When does it become too much and we should say enough in our society? Here are a list of a few examples to debate about.

Can't have a holiday festal at church because there isn't God in that holiday even though it will give a safe enviroment to children.
Can't watch TV shows that don't talk about God yet if one does't watch the news then how will one know what is happening in the world.
Can't play sports because it's violent and we are suppose to turn the other cheek. Yet it give people an outlet and keeps them from getting in trouble.
Can't wear certain clothes because they don't mention God. This includes plain shirts as well.
Can't be friends with certain people because they aren't Christians. Although it could lead to a situtation where one can share the Gospel.  

[Wishboxx]

I can understand your post to an extent. As Christians, we are not to sacrifice the Bible and what it stands for in order to participate in the traditions of the society we live in. But some of the examples you gave were too extreme and anyone would agree that it might be taking things too far. (Not wearing clothes that don't glorify God? I think it's more like what type if clothes we wear on our bodies that is important. For example, wearing a mini skirt vs. a nice flowy skirt that isn't too revealing. Or wearing a tube top as oppose to wearing a lovely tank top that doesn't show any cleavage or midriff. Get what I'm saying?)

The bible also tells us that even Jesus Christ dined with sinners and harlots. We surround ourselves with sinners not to partake in the sins they're indulging in, but to show them that transformation is possible if one has faith through Jesus Christ. It's to give them hope that one day, they too can establish a relationship with our Father.

Also, not all sports are violent. Sports can be very beneficial only if the person playing the sport knows how to play it. I'm not talking about just learning to abide by the rules (which is another benefit) but learning how to play without becoming competitive about it, losing their temper, or becoming hostile towards other players. Under those circumstances, I could see how it's a sin.  

[emorhconom esor]

Wishboxx

I can understand your post to an extent. As Christians, we are not to sacrifice the Bible and what it stands for in order to participate in the traditions of the society we live in. But some of the examples you gave were too extreme and anyone would agree that it might be taking things too far. (Not wearing clothes that don't glorify God? I think it's more like what type if clothes we wear on our bodies that is important. For example, wearing a mini skirt vs. a nice flowy skirt that isn't too revealing. Or wearing a tube top as oppose to wearing a lovely tank top that doesn't show any cleavage or midriff. Get what I'm saying?)

The bible also tells us that even Jesus Christ dined with sinners and harlots. We surround ourselves with sinners not to partake in the sins they're indulging in, but to show them that transformation is possible if one has faith through Jesus Christ. It's to give them hope that one day, they too can establish a relationship with our Father.

Also, not all sports are violent. Sports can be very beneficial only if the person playing the sport knows how to play it. I'm not talking about just learning to abide by the rules (which is another benefit) but learning how to play without becoming competitive about it, losing their temper, or becoming hostile towards other players. Under those circumstances, I could see how it's a sin.

For the clothing part I wasn't talking about modesty. I was talking about only wearing clothes like NOTW and what not. Yes, I posted the extrems for a reason to get people talking about the little things we do that are about legalism.  

[Wishboxx]

It's a really interesting discussion. I think people will say they'd do anything for the Lord if they were asked to do so, but how far would they go? I am a bit more understanding of not celebrating Halloween and other holidays that don't glorify the Lord. (We had a discussion on this topic in the Youth in Christ guild. So I can see both sides of the spectrum on that one.) But I'm not entirely sure. It's this tug-o-war between how willing are we to devote ourselves to God and how willing are we to stand back and see if we're taking things too far. (If there is a "too far," anyway.)  

[starry night-163]

I havn't seen this video bhttp://illbehonest.com/A-Study-on-the-Law-and-Legalism-Tim-Conwayut it sounds like it should answer some questions I'mma watch when I get the chance. No w to answer your debate questions:

1. I don't see anything wrong with that everyone gets a chance to be together for a while. I don't know any where in that says that wrong and if there is then I'm wrong but I don't know about that one.

2. http://illbehonest.com/Should-Christians-Watch-the-TV-Tim-Conway
http://illbehonest.com/Do-you-Watch-the-Things-God-Hates-Tim-Conway
I've seen these biggrin .

3. I don't think so as long as we don't get violent and too competative that we hurt ourselves and play fairly.

4. When God made Adam and Eve clothes I don't think he put his name on it and as long as it doesn't have anything sinful or provocative on it.

5. The Lord Jesus Christ ate with the tax collectors but didn't partake in their sin.  

[Saint Crazy The Follower]

Personally, the only law I feel I HAVE to follow is to love others.
That's what Jesus commanded us to do.

The other laws I follow out of courtesy to the world I live in.

There's a verse, I can't remember where, that says the law is there only to tell us how sinful we are.
We can use it as a guide as to how we should live, but ultimately the right thing to do is based on loving others and loving God. And that can vary from situation to situation and requires some good judgment. The law can often be too stale and sometimes sacrifices compassion and understanding for punishment and intolerance.
Jesus on the other hand, put compassion and love first.



Also, this post reminded me of a news story I heard about schools suspending an elementary kid for bringing little toy soldiers because they had tiny toy guns, which technically aren't allowed under their no-tolerance policy.
See, that's where the "good judgment" part needs to come in.  

[faithful quenga]

Saint Crazy S Requiem

Personally, the only law I feel I HAVE to follow is to love others.
That's what Jesus commanded us to do.

The other laws I follow out of courtesy to the world I live in.

There's a verse, I can't remember where, that says the law is there only to tell us how sinful we are.
We can use it as a guide as to how we should live, but ultimately the right thing to do is based on loving others and loving God. And that can vary from situation to situation and requires some good judgment. The law can often be too stale and sometimes sacrifices compassion and understanding for punishment and intolerance.
Jesus on the other hand, put compassion and love first.

I am a sinner... "1 John 1:8"

This I wholeheartedly agree with. thank you for giving me a different way of looking at it 3nodding

... Saved by God's grace "Acts 15:11"

 

[Green_Fuu]

Legalism comes mostly from not understanding scripture/not knowing God.
People focus on the words rather than on the meaning.
But ultimately if you love Jesus with all your heart and you let love rule over all, you are complying with the law.

If you love your neighbor obviously you are not going to do anything to harm him/her.
If you love yourself you are not going to do anything to harm yourself spiritually/non-spiritually.
If you love God you are not going to do anything to harm any of the above.

And that is why Jesus made it a point that the greatest of the commandments was love. catching the drift?
"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Mt 22:37-40)
^^

BUT there is also a double face to this issue.
People who use the word "legalism" too lightly in order to do as they please, yet again comes from not knowing God/ not understanding scripture.

In the transcurrent extent of my short life I have known people who are legalistic to the extreme and people who are the complete opposite.
Neither are good.
The legalist wants to do everything word by word.
That's already picking into every single detail in order to feel the right to look down upon someone else because they broke that fine print.
To feel better about themselves.
They feel as though single word has to be accounted for never minding the main concept behind it.
On the other extreme of the coin, there are people who claim "legalism" at anything that doesn't appeal to them in order to live their lives however they please.
That way they live their lives in sin thinking they don't have to comply with anything scripture says.
I've had people tell me that getting drunk isn't bad.
After, I pointed to scripture telling them that God frowns upon it. They simply called, "legalism."
It's like trying to pull the "racism" card. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, it doesn't mean that person is being racist/legalistic .
Learning to recognize when God is warning you or talking to you through someone vs. just Bible picking and choosing is very important.
That is why we have to ask for discernment and understanding so that we may not fall under the same mistake as the scribes and Pharisees did.

 

[starry night-163]

Saint Crazy S Requiem

Personally, the only law I feel I HAVE to follow is to love others.
That's what Jesus commanded us to do.

The other laws I follow out of courtesy to the world I live in.

There's a verse, I can't remember where, that says the law is there only to tell us how sinful we are.
We can use it as a guide as to how we should live, but ultimately the right thing to do is based on loving others and loving God. And that can vary from situation to situation and requires some good judgment. The law can often be too stale and sometimes sacrifices compassion and understanding for punishment and intolerance.
Jesus on the other hand, put compassion and love first.



Also, this post reminded me of a news story I heard about schools suspending an elementary kid for bringing little toy soldiers because they had tiny toy guns, which technically aren't allowed under their no-tolerance policy.
See, that's where the "good judgment" part needs to come in.

Commandment 1 and the one about loving your neighbor as yourself all tie into the others because if you love God and you love your neighbors as yourself your not going to steal from them, your not going commit adultary with them, murder them, etc.