I believe in god, but this christ stuff doesn't add up.

[Br1ttana]

Siimple Servant

Br1ttana

Siimple Servant

Think about it this way, God KNEW us before HE created the entire UNIVERSE. He was probably testing Eve as He does to us today, and when Eve ate that apple, God already had another plan for us and that plan was to send Jesus Christ FOR US. We won't be able to understand God and His holiness - our minds cannot fathom it. And if you're doubting God, take those up to Him. He can control anything and everything.

The Lord doesn't tempt us! If I could find the stinkin' thread that went over this I'd link you to it, but the Lord doesn't tempt us! :/

I didn't say He did. I said He was TESTING them...Isn't there a difference? There is to ME. But i guess if there isn't to you then let it be...

I somehow read test as tempt. sweatdrop Although after thinking about it, I don't think that I do really see a difference. Especially in the situation you listed. They basically seem like the same thing to me. I'd like to hear your differences in the meanings though if you don't mind.

-@Temstar. I'm glad to hear that you are liking and finding the guild helpful. We'll all keep trying to help out as best as possible. Besides that, I don't think I have anything to add at this point... sweatdrop  

[Rednal]

@Fallen Temster: That's basically the idea. Before my baptism (which I hadn't talked to anyone about until I decided to do it; I felt it was my decision, and mine alone), I was discussing things with one of the senior staff members at my church, since it's generally traditional to have some form of 'class' and make sure people actually know what they're doing. When I was asked why I wanted to be baptized, I took out my bible and pointed to the verse where Jesus explained "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." (Mark 16:16, NIV) At no point have I ever come across anything else that adds to these criteria for salvation.

You will fail at your attempt to avoid sin. This is basically inevitable, simply because human nature is imperfect and sinful. But regardless, trying to sin as little as you can is still a goal worth striving for. If nothing else, I suppose living that way cuts down on the amount that God suffered for us. I'm one of those "believes that Jesus dying on the cross wasn't just about dying, but taking the full force of God's wrath for every sin, ever, and with His anger vented and past He could truly forgive" sort of people, and attempting to live righteously, even though it's apparently not required, is a very good thing to do.

I'm glad you're going to stick around, too! I don't come here too often, but your thread title interested me. XD You may have noticed that I am never afraid to explain my points in excessive detail; hope I didn't overdo it.


@Br1ttana: A test is something you generally give to somebody as a challenge, typically in the hopes that they will pass it. I've heard, for example, that the Lord does not test us with things we cannot overcome. Conversely, tempting somebody usually involves trying to take them away from one path, and onto the one you suggest, generally hoping they will abandon their previous course. Tempting is usually seen in a negative light, while testing can be annoying and troublesome, but is widely regarded as positive. Though you could argue that the Lord tempts you to righteousness with the offer of salvation, too. XD  

[Robotic Chewie19]

A Fallen Temstar

Shadows-shine

Scripture was inspired by God, but written by man. The doctrine contained within the scriptures is all true.


Jesus was resurrected, so why would He need a grave site?


Pain in childbirth is a consequence of the fall. And yes, all women must endure pain before the miracle of birth.


We don't really know what the forbidden fruit was. It could've been an apple, an orange, a pomegranite, etc. Either way, the type of fruit she ate isn't the important detail.

It wasn't our fault though. Why should we have to suffer from her mistake?

We don't when Adam and Eve ate the fruit they let sin into the world and we don't get punished for the sins they did but the sins we do

Romans 3:10-26
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17And the way of peace have they not known:

18There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.  

[_0pal-Heart-]

A Fallen Temstar

Jester25

The way that I have always understood it is... that you're not held accountable for things/sin that you do not know about. Sin is when you know something is wrong and you do it anyway. But that's another thing... if you know something is wrong, and you try not to do it, that counts. God judges your heart, He knows that you're at least trying, and that's what counts. We're all human, we all make mistakes, because we are not perfect, and He understands that, I mean He made us after all. But He still expects us to at least try, and if we screw up, we ask for His forgiveness, and His help, and try not to do it again.

edit: Also if we never make a mistake, we cannot learn or grow. We as people learn from mistakes, and it makes us stronger... I mean it's one thing to know something, and another to actually experience it.

Sorry for jumping into the conversation... but that is my opinion on all of this...

@thread: and correct me if I am wrong on any of that.

I had the same opinion! But I just don't want to assume anything first until I get some knowledge in. This is a good guild.

You want to be careful with how you use that though, when it comes down to it God is perfect and can not be in the presence of God whether intentional or unintentional. It is against his nature. Just as you can't have dark and light at the same time. You can have dark where the light doesn't reach but where there is light there can not be darkness. God's nature is such that sin can not be in his presence. Even if it's unintentional, it separates us from God.

That's the Miracle of Jesus. The only way we can be in gods presence is if our sin is paid for. God is a just god, it's also part of his nature. Sin can not go unpunished. The punishment for sin is death. Think of a situation where a man killed someone close to you intentional and is clearly guilty. He goes to court and stands in front of the judge and tells him he should let him go because he pays taxes, mows his neighbors lawn and a but of other 'good' stuff. If the judge let him go free we would say that is unjust. In the same way sin has to be punished.

Sin is part of our nature, earlier it was mentioned that it didn't seem fair we suffer for what Eve did, but the fall goes much deeper than that. Just like traits are passed on from generation to generation there's a trait from even which has been passes down through the entire human race, and that is a flawed nature, a sinful nature that rebels against God to satisfy our own desires and worship something other than him.

Now here's the crazy part, as punishment for sin we have to die and the punishment is hell. Hell is simply eternal separation from God. The only way this can be avoided is if a sacrifice takes the punishment for us. Not just any sacrifice but a pure and perfect sacrifice. One that doesn't have a flawed nature and has never sinned.

Here's the problem, Sin is a trait of the entire human race it is impossible for a human not to sin... UNLESS is is God himself. The creator of the universe gave us everything so he could come down and humble himself, to live according to the flesh yet never sin and then he GLADLY took on the punishment for OUR sins even though he had NEVER done anything wrong. He suffered the most painful death and experienced something we will NEVER have to experience, complete separation from God. God is always with us no matter how far away we may feel, we always have him beside us, Jesus experienced complete separation from his father, the punishment for all our sins so when we stand before him God no longer sees any of our sins, intentional or other wise. God doesn't distinguish between sin, he can't be in it's presence at all. However, none of it is seen because Jesus took the punishment. Because he was fully man he could die, because he was fully God he could make it through death and return to the father.

Our nature is flawed and we do sin, and we are continuously fighting against it, but when it comes down to it, his love is unconditional, he loves us regardless, and because all his wrath has been poured out we can enter into his presence as pure children of God. I hope this helps!!!!