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 Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:55 pm
perhaps I'm strange, but while I lack belief in personal gods, I have no problems with the idea of a spirit world. I guess, if I dont feel it necessary to have a god in this life, then why would a spirit world need one either?
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:56 pm
oh yeah, and as far as whether it's foolish or not, I'm indifferent smile
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:25 am
Well the most simple way i can put for it ,it doesn't make you foolish to wonder,if you didn't,than how would we find out anything
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:29 am
I've pressurized someone's head from hundreds of miles away I've pulled of leviation in a minor amount and I see demons daily(Whether they're hallucinations or not is still up for debate friend heard wierd noises when I sent them to visit so I'll go with not hallucinations) so the paranormal is something to be believed in and belief in it definitely doesn't make you foolish it makes the scientists who say they have proven it's not explainable or possible the foolish ones in reality.
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:43 pm
yeah I agree there about scientists being foolish. just because they cant explain or prove something at this point in time doesnt mean it doesnt exist. how do you prove the spiritual thru current scientific methods? mainstream science is geared towards the physical world. that which can be tested and retested to get identical results. I doubt the spirit side is like that. the closest they've come to metaphysical science is quantum physics (and many traditional scientists spurn it), who's logic seems rather topsy-turvy. but it's a new science in the baby stages. who is to say more will not be revealed thru it given time? humanity did at one point believe the world to be flat, after all..
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:57 pm
okay, i will just go out and say it, i am a Christian, but i am not one of those religious fanatics that spends all of his time reading the Bible, blowing up abortion clinics, or standing on a street corner trying to convert people and saying, "you are going to hell!' im just not into shoving religion down people's throats. but i guess my reason for believing in God, and also I think this is the reason for a lot of believers, is that I want some kind of closure for the strange "paranormal" things that happen to me or other people, some of the weird things that happen in this world I believe are the work of Satan or demons. Well, I guess those are my thoughts on the subject, take it or leave it
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:12 pm
The heck with it, I'll throw down for a bit in here.
To all the people saying we can't just worry about the physical world and that science is too mean to understand all of the stuff, etc:
Nothing else matters. Period. We live in the physical world, and we can only test things in the physical world. Anything beyond that is unfalsifiable, so it becomes a matter of faith. Things that go bump in the night? Ghosts and goblins and UFOs? None of it matters if there's no physical evidence, as far as science is concerned. Yes, there are people trying very hard to find said physical evidence, but until they do, stating that they exist is basically the same as discussing the existence of a god: there's always going to be debate because there's never going to be tangible evidence one way or the other. Saying that one is foolish for putting faith into something that can't be proven is foolish in itself.
Also: remember that any highly advanced enough science can be termed "magic" or "paranormal." Simply because we don't understand or can't experiment with it NOW doesn't mean that we won't be able to test or understand it in the future. Science is NOT static, it is an ongoing METHOD of reasoning. The world operates on a set of rules, and science tests things to get the best idea of those rules. Humans have believed in a number of things over the years, and we'll likely change our beliefs as more information is discoved and new technology is developed. This is the nature of science and the nature of learning.
Lastly, to all the people who claim to have paranormal abilities or have experienced paranormal events: chances are that you're either delusional or you're lying. This isn't anything against you personally, but I've read transcripts of people who actually claimed and believed to be characters from popular anime series, as well as talked with people who honestly believed that their friends were vampires. And in the end, with enough reasoning and patience, we always discover that this is never the case. If any one of you wants to take me up on the matter, please consider this an open invitation to convince me of your "special" status. This is a place for intelligent discussion, after all. However, do know that I'm coming into this as a skeptic, and that time and time again those convinced of their own paranormal abilities are always and consistently revealed to be frauds or delusional when brought into the realm of reason and logic.
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:14 pm
dboyzero- Well put there. Can I be your new friend? But seriously, I totally agree. I'm a skeptic too. But I do have to admit I've seen some pretty freaky s**t. Most likely is just my imagination running wild though. And your comment about science as a constantly changing method of reasoning... bravo. People just don't seem to get that.
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:57 pm
Well, the paranormal can be proved, sometimes. Sure, there are always skeptics, just like religion. If you have a video of a chair moving on its own, and no one's in the room, people are going to still say "Some one pushed it.". If a miracle happens after you've prayed or whatever, some people will believe it was a coincidence. It does not make you ignorant- ignorant is not knowing. I believe we are all ignorant.
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:57 pm
Story - I went to Waverly Hills Sanitorium, which is supposedly haunted, on a tour. While there, I didn't see anything scary, though two of my friends did. One of mine saw a ghostly white face through a door that none of the others saw, and my other friend saw a "shadow person" (a shadow that isn't made by anything, from my understanding). At one point in the tour, I started getting the shakes really bad even though it wasn't colder there than anywhere else, and a horrible feeling came to my gut. After that experience, I believe in the supernatural.
Now, I think that the same applies for religion. If someone decides to ignore all the evidence otherwise and believe simply what they're told to for no good reason, I see that as a sign of idiocy. But if someone sees God in nature, or has a revelation of some sort, then they have a good reason to believe.
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:59 pm
If believing in the paranormal makes you foolish then i am an idiot! I believe in it all of those weird situations how else can you explain it.
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:24 pm
i was born and raised a lutheran christian. but as i read more fantasy books and my personality and quirks...developed, i realized that no one can truly know what god or gods are real. there is SOMETHING out there that listens. something has to be, otherwise where would the matter and energy come from to create the big bang? i believe that all gods are real in their own right. otherwise the "true" god(s) would have extinguished it, right? if you think i'm crazy, pm me and we'll talk.
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:12 pm
Hmmm..yeah okay I'll voice my opinion..I afterall have somthing to say about everything anyway.
We're cursed with sentients so we question our existance and the unexplained constantly, so it's alright.
When you say beileveing in superstisous things and what not you think that person is foolish? Well I guess that one way of putting it, but then again isn't science and fact just another side of the coin we call reality? Who are we to say who's a gullible idiot and who's the vexing man with all the solutions who's 100% right.
No one is right or wrong. There just words.
I mean take a look at slavery. To the white buisness man he figured "wait..I can higher people and all I got to do is feed them and they work for free?!? Thats a brilliant idea!!" while the black man "this sucks.." or the cultists "this religion is great it'll awnser all my problems and I'll never be sad" the normal person "lunancy and poppy c**k! bring me my shoes!"
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Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:43 am
the first post here states paranormal beleives and religious ppl as blind belief, and I just want to point out that science does it quite often as well. unless you are a huge, famous scientist, any theories that seem outragously against textbook knowledge (laws of nature, etc) are automatically thought wrong by the science community, even if you have plenty of evidence. Think like flubber. An imaginary substance that can actually gain energy and bounce higher, rather than loose energy fighting gravity. It was just a movie, but who is to say flubber could not exist at some point?
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Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:36 am
The more evidence you have, the more seriously it's taken. That's what peer-reviewed scientific journals are for. That's the key difference between speculation and experimentation: that in order for real proof to exist, repeatable results must be able to be obtained. Yes, flubber could theoretically exist, but until we have the scientific evidence and results to support it, it will always remain in speculation.
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