About abortion debates.

[God-Raped-Me]

So I have a couple points I'm curious about. I'm posting this in the ATG because I know we're all capable of having an intelligent conversation about this, unlike the bull that comes out of the ED. Now I can see this starting up quite a heated debate and I must ask before I go on, DO NOT BE RUDE TO ANYONE WHO POSTS! THESE ARE OPINIONS AND MORALS OF PEOPLE AND CAN NOT BE WRONG! Now that I have that out of the way, I will go on with my questions.

How come when people are bashing abortion, but not abortion over rape, they never think about if the couple used contraceptives? The chick who was raped didn't want to get pregnant and neither did the girl on the pill. In my case we used the pill and a condom and I STILL got pregnant. I just don't understand why pregnancy because of rape and pregnancy even with the use of contraceptives are different.

Now for the long one. How come people who are pro-life can't understand that should a law be passed, because of them, to make abortions illegal it is now THEIR fault that those lives are born. I looked up the stats on abortion this is for 2000, that year 1.31 million abortions happened in the US taken from here. I suck at looking up stats, so if someone could find a more recent one for all of North America I'd love that! Also for those of you in a country other than one in North America feel free to post your country's stats! Anyways they can't understand that because they allowed a law to be passed that made abortion illegal, these new lives are now THEIR fault. Their "logic" is "I'm not the one who had sex, it's not my responsibility.". They can't understand that it's because of them that a life HAD to be born, and it's their fault. I just can't understand how they don't get the logic!

Just a funny little tidbit, I was reading one of the debates in the ED and some guy said "It's not my fault he stuck his stick in her chocolate maker and she got pregnant.". Biology much? rofl If you don't know how it works, don't talk about it.  

[pickle relish]

Hmm. I think in most debates I've had about abortion, contraceptives were mentioned. Then again, I'm pro-choice, so I generally try to cover all the bases of reasons for abortion.
Another thing mentioned in abortion debates, that some people don't think about, is other, illegal, ways to have an abortion. Most of which are extremely dangerous, and result in death or serious injury on the woman's part.
By passing anti-abortion laws, they force many women to try these riskier procedures.  

[AlcoholicPancake]

I think the pro-life people are annoying and stupid, but that's just my outlook. Personally, if someone doesn't want a kid, I think abortion is the way to go, as long as steps were taken to prevent pregnancy in the first place, because if you ask me, living your life not knowing who your real parents are would seem like torture to me. Never knowing what life could have been like if they hadn't given you up and all that. Abortion would at least save that kid from life-long wondering like that.

In the end though, it's up to the couple who's thinking about it. If they want to have the kid and keep it or give it away, then fine, but if they want to have an abortion, then it should be up to them to choose.


EDIT: Forgot something...

Pro-life people probably just don't care because it's not them having to live with these children and struggle to give them a good life, or to feed them. By that logic, why should they care? I mean, it's not them suffering, right? Either way, I should go on a raping rampage, and rape every pro-life person I meet. That way they'll feel stupid for wanting abortion illegal. Who's with me?  

[Shram]

Quote:

How come when people are bashing abortion, but not abortion over rape, they never think about if the couple used contraceptives? The chick who was raped didn't want to get pregnant and neither did the girl on the pill. In my case we used the pill and a condom and I STILL got pregnant. I just don't understand why pregnancy because of rape and pregnancy even with the use of contraceptives are different.

My Comment to this is that The raped never chose to have sex while the one using Contraceptiv chose to have Sex which is the Way of making babies last I heard xD
Obviously in this modern day and age Stating that you shouldn't have sex if you don't want babies holds true as well as holds bollocks
We know what we like and we want it and people should to a certain extent be allowed to choose themself.
In the case of using contraceptives then it was accidental (Half at least) and should therefore be a Moment where Abortion should be acceptable Since they already attempted to Not have a child.
If Someone doesn't use contraceptive then they should frankly accept that there will be a child.

In other words: I figure Raped people as well as people using Contraceptives should be allowed to have an abortion and people who are neither of these shouldn't.

Quote:

Now for the long one. How come people who are pro-life can't understand that should a law be passed, because of them, to make abortions illegal it is now THEIR fault that those lives are born. I looked up the stats on abortion this is for 2000, that year 1.31 million abortions happened in the US taken from here. I suck at looking up stats, so if someone could find a more recent one for all of North America I'd love that! Also for those of you in a country other than one in North America feel free to post your country's stats! Anyways they can't understand that because they allowed a law to be passed that made abortion illegal, these new lives are now THEIR fault. Their "logic" is "I'm not the one who had sex, it's not my responsibility.". They can't understand that it's because of them that a life HAD to be born, and it's their fault. I just can't understand how they don't get the logic!

I find that groups of people such as these Pro Life people are so determined at being right that all sense of logic against them tend to be ignored even if punched in their face.  

[God-Raped-Me]

pickle relish

Another thing mentioned in abortion debates, that some people don't think about, is other, illegal, ways to have an abortion. Most of which are extremely dangerous, and result in death or serious injury on the woman's part.
By passing anti-abortion laws, they force many women to try these riskier procedures.

Most pro-life people won't accept that little bit of information either! What the hell?!

pancake

. Personally, if someone doesn't want a kid, I think abortion is the way to go, as long as steps were taken to prevent pregnancy in the first place, because if you ask me, living your life not knowing who your real parents are would seem like torture to me. Never knowing what life could have been like if they hadn't given you up and all that. Abortion would at least save that kid from life-long wondering like that.

I couldn't agree more! I don't want to bring a child into the world who can't spend their life with the people who made them! I just would never do that, I would abort over than any day! My child deserves the best they can get.

@Shram: Having sex for humans is largely psychological. Most, not all, humans have a need to have sex. For some that need is higher for some it's lower and can be as low as 1 every 5 years. However the need is still there. That's why I don't believe in the whole "you should never have had sex in the first place". I'd like to see these people only have sex when they want to make babies! Not arguing with you by the way just pointing out that sex is pretty much a needed thing for humans.  

[Shram]

Thats what I was trying to say but I think I muddled it up abit xD
Especially these days when sex is everywhere it'd be strange to not have the want for it.  

[Sanzoskitsune]

The problem is Pro-lifers stand on their little soap boxes and refuse to budge from their position and don't realize the pain they're actually causing. A long time ago, I used to think a certain way and that abortion should only be allowed during certain cases and then I realized how amazingly hypocritical that was. I think its a little bit of the same with these pro-lifers, they have yet to realize the hypocrisy of their views on certain points. Not only that but they're SO against abortion, that they refuse to see the long-term harm that having the baby could have in the end. Just my thoughts on the matter.  

[Mugen Nagrom]

Well I get my two cents in, most pro-lifers actually do have kids(the ones that I have met. But the topic is so touchy that it makes it hard to say anything intelligent without being called the fallen of god. The world doesn't need more people at all. It is not right to bring a kid you do not want into this world, unwanted children are always unwanted( yeah it was said in so many words before). I have seen some with bright futures cast aside to live with the poor for the sake of the pro-life, I say it is better to waste one life then two. I think it is also kind of lame that the the sides of the argument are pro-life and pro-choice, it really should be pro-nochoice and pro-reason....  

[Arcanas]

I think religion has a lot to play in it as well. From my personal experience, not mine, but a very good friend of mine, got his girlfriend pregnant, and because of her and her parent's religion, even though the child wasn't wanted, she really didn't have a choice in the matter.

And if it matters, she was Christian. I'm not entirely sure as to how Catholics view these matters, as I really don't care for religion, (I think they tend to be more trouble than their worth)  

[Sanzoskitsune]

Catholicism doesn't allow abortion... or contraceptives for that matter. Its kinda messed up that way.  

[Arcanas]

wow...so, using condoms is looked down upon eh...

I guess the guys have to get their timing down for when they have to pull out...  

[Sanzoskitsune]

Tch as if that method actually works. The idea behind it if I remember is that God chooses when you have children, what gives you the right to close a window to getting pregnant? Either that or sex is only for reproduction so you shouldn't be having sex for fun anyway. One of those two is the basis, what with Catholicism having a huge stick up its butt.  

[God-Raped-Me]

I think pulling out is looked down upon too. Not sure so don't quote me.

I understand, but I don't agree with, religions input on the matter. I think it's sad, but if you're so religious that you listen to the "rules" then so be it. However that doesn't give them the right to shove that down someone's throat. Arc, I hope that when the child was born the parents views changed about the baby.

@Sanzo and Mugen: I find it funny when pro-lifers say they care about the child and the child's life. They don't. They say that to make themselves look better. If they really cared they would think about what type of life the child will have. If they get out of adoption centers, or of the parents ever tell them they're adopted which I hope they do because when the adoptive parents die the kids get to see the paper work and will probably see the adoption papers. Can we say shattered view of their life? Imagine knowing your entire life was a lie. Fun or not, they're not biological and that affects people whether they like to admit it or not. So either the kid goes crazy from years of believing one thing then finding it's all a lie, or they wonder for their life why mommy and daddy didn't want them. Ya, that has to be great for the kid, way to care about them!  

[Sanzoskitsune]

Exactly! And those kids are the LUCKY ones. Some kids NEVER get adopted, a good percentage of those kids actually. So these pro-lifers would rather have these children who don't know what its like to have a warm loving family be out there hurting for all their lives just because of their own damn principles? If these people don't want to have abortions themselves that's fine but they shouldn't shove their beliefs down other people's throats  

[Arcanas]

Well, the father wanted the kid, it was the mother that was having issues...actually, she went pretty psycho...it was kind of scary...we all thought she was going to kill herself