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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:11 pm
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Lots of people claim that there are references in famous works to whatever drugs the artist was supposedly taking when s/he made it. There are also many suppositions as to what drugs caused what references, but for the purposes of this OP, we'll just say "drugs." Two of the more popular stories (and by "more popular," I mean "my favorites,") are "Alice in Wonderland and Her Adventures Through the Looking Glass" and "The Wizard of Oz." Now, as an aspiring writer and competent draftsman, I personally feel that using drug references in stories and artwork is deplorable. It is to creativity what sticky notes are to studying - a nice, ambiguous way to cheat those who actually did the work. Discuss: -Use of drugs as a creative stimulant -Ethics of drug use -Common references to drugs in literature and art
Alice in Wonderland links: 1 This person is actually pretty sad; look over to the right and you see a bunch of other Disney movies they've tried to read things into. 2 This one also doesn't have any citations, but it does give an example of what I'm talking about in the list of references/claims of drug use. 3 Now, this one isn't technically cited, though it does have an impressive "links" page that leads to similar sites with matching information. 4 This site doesn't have any citations either (mostly because it's an informal essay,) but I tend to agree with the author's points (even if they are made in poorly-constructed run-on sentences.)
Wizard of Oz links: 1 This one is pretty well-cited, though most of the sources are books or magazines (and so are a little harder to get your hands on.) 2This one has very little actual citation, but it seems that the author has been using credible sources because of the multitude of links to other pages with similar information. 3 O_o This one gave me a headache. It explores possible links between mysticism and theology to the story. It's pretty interesting, if nothing else. 4 This one is definitely my favorite. Having heard this myth several times, I was not surprised to find a website dedicated to it. However, the detail that is goes into is really something else.
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:32 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:50 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:52 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:02 pm
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Hm... I don't know that it's actually cheating, any more than someone who has seen a forest and can remember the way light filters through the branches, the way the moss hangs off the bark, the way the undergrowth pokes up here and there, when asked to recreate these for a picture can do so, and the person who's never made it out to the woods can only approximate it. Those who have done drugs (and can actually recall what the sensations on it were) simply have an altered (or wider, if you prefer) perception of reality. As a matter of fact, some of the artists we most revere today are STILL in and out of rehabs, when they're not 6 feet under. (This goes with prescription, a la Heath Ledger, as well as psychedelic, like River Phoenix, and plain ol' alcohol [and whatever else he could get his hands on], like Robert Downey Jr.)
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:09 pm
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Taeryyn I'm not sure I get what you're upset about. The idea of artists/authors taking drugs? The idea of artists/authors referencing said drugs in their works? Or the fact that some people claim that there are drug references in many famous works? Well, I meant specifically artists/authors using drugs, but I prefaced my original claim with the rumors that circulate. I also included links to a few sites regarding my two favorite stories, the authors of which happen to be commonly accused of having been drug addicts or high while writing them. Also, I'm not so much upset as I am intrigued by the possibility. Not that I want to get high or try using drugs to focus my creative energy, but like many ideas I'd never considered on my own, I am surprised and curious. I figured the ATG is a pretty diverse place to ask my question, and see what kind of answers I get.
Taeryyn I don't like some of these people's assumptions that drug use is inherently corrupt or evil. =/ Even if there are drug references (intentional or not), a person who has no knowledge of drugs or drug references is not going to be "corrupted" or want to go out and drop acid. I'm not disputing that in the slightest; I'm hardly a pillar of moral behavior. The only issue I'm addressing in this thread is whether or not using drugs is a valid and acceptable way to fuel artistic creativity. I know a lot of artists whose works are heavily influenced by music, drugs, and their personal lives. I personally am more inclined to appreciate those shaped by music rather than drugs. I brought this up on a lark to try to ascertain the ATG's thoughts.
Taeryyn Quote: Now, as an aspiring writer and competent draftsman, I personally feel that using drug references in stories and artwork is deplorable. It is to creativity what sticky notes are to studying - a nice, ambiguous way to cheat those who actually did the work. Clarify? Apologies, since I'm obviously brain-dead, but I don't get your analogy. sweatdrop What I mean is that it seems to me that using a mind-altering substance to direct yourself into a creative state is the same as defining the key words in the back of every chapter in a text, and then skip reading the chapter. The end result is the same of those who took the longer, more difficult path, but do the individuals engaging in these practices really deserve recognition on par with the others?
@ Aretoo: I see the parallel there. It makes sense insomuch as those who've been somewhere have a better idea of what it looks like. I have little to no tolerance for addiction of any kind myself, having seen firsthand what it makes people into. However, my biases aside, I still don't know if you can call someone who get wasted and publishes the odd thoughts they wrote down while they were high a true poet.
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:18 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:42 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:45 pm
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:48 pm
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I have to agree with everyone else. 3nodding Yes, drugs can be helpful and deadly, but if you use them in the correct way, then there's not a problem. Some people just can't get that in their head and that's why they are addicts. stare But then again, they are just human like the rest of us, you can't blame them. But besides that, people can make-up a creepy/beautiful story just by their own original mind, no stimulants involved. There are plently of references out there to choose from and so many things to learn, and if you have to experince them, to gain more knowledge in with/what you are writing/drawing, then you go ahead and take that own experience.
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:56 pm
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