Am I Just Hypersensitive?

[The Dinosaur Next Door]

Okay, so I just got out of class from what must be THE most infuriating discussion so far. We're talking about "The Prophecy" by Anjana Appachana. We're talking specifically about whether or not Almira or Hemu is the nonconformist character, as relates to Indian social mores and the conversation with the astrologer (both of which are elements within the story.)

In trying to illustrate my point, I mention that I don't want kids because I think that I can use this to draw parallels to the story that we were discussing (specifically the social pressure placed on women in regards to childbearing and marriage.) As I expected, another groupmate asks me, "Why don't you want to have kids?" which I wanted to use to lead into my argument.

Then this woman cuts in and announces like she's some authority, "she's not ready. She's just not ready." Here's my issue with that:

1) She has shut down my arguments in the past, saying that I talk too much in class and make it difficult for her to follow the discussion. Well, doesn't that mean that I prove my knowledge, and that it is superior to (or at least deeper and more qualified than) her own?

2) She has admitted to me that I am intelligent and intimidating, and that she wishes she had my foresight in her youth. Wouldn't that indicate to her that I may have a better understanding of myself now than she did then?

3) We have never spoken beyond the two conversations that I just described, but she talks about my state of mind like she's some kind of expert as to what I want with my life. She also condescends to me that I'm not a mother, and so have no idea as to whether or not I am mother material.

4) She also refused to explain to me where she got the idea that I only tell people I don't want kids because I'm "not ready." She shut up immediately after that, and would not defend her statement.

The only thing I can think based on this information is that she was trying to make a sweeping generalization based on my youth and apply her basic understanding of today's teens to me. She happens to be immeasurably incorrect, and, I think, knows it, because she also has no factual basis for her claims. That's two logical fallacies in one statement, so, I pose the question to you, the ATG:

Is it really sensible in an intellectual discussion, to pose an argument riddled with logical fallacies and constructed without any factual documentation or proof, when the subject of your claim has proved that the presumptive assessment is incorrect (or at least invalid?)

Here's the spoon:
-people who make asinine assumptions
-people who talk about things they don't understand
-arguments that poke holes in themselves
-class debates
-the downfalls of the Socratic teaching method  

[Kira84]

I haven't heard the story, but it seems like her protest that you don't want kids because you aren't ready just shows how deeply ingrained in society the expectation to have kids is. People who either have or want to have kids (most people) seem to be completely uncomprehending of the fact that not everyone thinks like they do.

I don't want kids either... 'not ready' seems to be the automatic response when people hear that. You could probably use that response as part of your argument, by saying that it is a good example of how the expectation is for everyone to have kids at some point.

It seems like people tend to just group anyone younger than themselves into a 'less experienced' category and dismiss them as such, even if they are more intelligent. I was in high school not too long ago, and I find it funny how others who probably aren't much older than I am readily dismiss the idea that highschoolers may have political opinions, without bothering to look at the individuals or their reasoning, just on the basis that they are in high school. These same people were probably clamoring to be heard when they were younger.

If people try to use age alone to support their arguments, there probably isn't a whole lot of substance there.  

[Izumi Iris]

Correct. Most tend to forget that age does not necessarily mean brain power. Most of today's "smarts" if you will come from the younger generation. It's not the quantity, its quality of life. Most don't understand that a mind filled with ideas doesn't mean that the mind was filled with experience.
He[[, people also think that one of a whole tends to be the same. I used to work fast food, and many used that as an incentive that I was a drop out. They'd do simple math for me, try to talk about drinking, ask me if I ever thought of going back to school, things of that nature. Pregnancy was one of my favorites though, because I'm too skinny to BE bearing, nor do I want anything to do with children. The funniest moment is watching eyes roll as if I was the one making the presumption...
And that's true of anything. I plan to marry my boyfriend, and when classmates or coworkers hear that, they think that I'm just another floozy. But in actuality, I just am waiting for us to set up on a house and some money to pile up before we take the short walk. They also don't think of him as my boyfriend... I am 5'6 at 125 lbs. He is at 6'2 with 220 lbs. He's also as dark as a good mocha and I'm as white as paper.
Just balance on what to call out as BS and what not to. Or... carry a big stick ^_^ Beatings always work!


FYI - And that's why I don't want kids, because I would beat them to an inch of their lives. More and more people now days don't want the burden of having children, and just like Kira said, the ones that do are completely oblivious to our decision for not bearing.  

[The Dinosaur Next Door]

I have no interest in making the sacrifices that mothers must for children. Not to mention the fact that I enjoy being alone and I don't like clingy, needy people. I also don't care for explaining myself to others and I don't like to feel like I have to edit myself for my audience. On top of that, I ******** hate crying and I hate emotional conversations, which (if my life is any indication,) children are prone to need throughout their entire lives.

Of course, she wouldn't know that. All she sees is that I'm not old, fat, and tired like she is... So I guess I really don't have any value to her in that arena, which is fine, but what really bothers me is the fact that she felt okay telling one stranger what's what about another stranger's life decisions. I don't even know if she was arguing based on my age or my appearance, though I myself don't think either is an accurate indication in any individual.

If what you're suggesting is the case, then, I think there needs to be a social movement to prevent the rest of society from imposing its will on those who don't feel the need to cave to lower instincts. I've heard it argued that it's healthy and natural to have children, but I can't believe that my disinterest in breeding isn't an instinctive reaction to the population/climate/resource crisis.

I think I may conduct a study as to whether or not people my age are interested in breeding, and what the causes are. I can publish them and show them to her. Maybe then she'll think twice before she decides to speak for the "less experienced" generation. biggrin  

[Tayi Monster]

I am terribly sorry... but it is a bit too early in the morning for me to read that much. sweatdrop  

[Zombie1429]

What kind of level are the other kids in your class working to? She might be making a legitimate point if they're not quite as sharp as you, afterall, if the teacher can't follow your argument then its likely that most of them can't either and she is doing her best to be inclusive and teach you all (even if it forces her to do it to a lower standard).

I guess i'm asking who's thicker, your teacher or your peers?  

[Quasar Quirks]

Way to go for you! My friends are always gushing at the preschoolers when we pass them in the halls, but I seem to only feel how much bigger I am than them and then I want to kick one in the face. I also never want children. My friends asked why, and I gladly gave all my reasons. However, when like you I brought it up in a debate, I got all these evil glares and accusations of being insane and devoid of compassion. I just hate it when people make assumptions about your actions and you. I also dislike teachers looking down on you, as if you couldn't possibly comprehend the realities of the world without them, and yet you know more about the topic at hand than they do. Frequently, I experience this in math class as I correct my teacher nearly everyday, and yet she believes herself to be smarter. Sometimes, she'll even argue with me, and then begrudgingly change it because in the end I'm right. As for history and english, sometimes it's hard to tell if I'm explaining me argument to my class or my teacher. My best advice: grit your teeth, and invest in a good book. Then bide your time, and unleash all your hell-born fury at once.  

[The Dinosaur Next Door]

@ Tayi: Sorry for the text wall; I seem to do that a lot.
@ Bandit: We're actually in college, so we're pretty much the level we were at when we graduated.
My teacher was actually nowhere near us; the "woman" I referred to was another groupmate. We were split into several groups of four or five to discuss the story amongst ourselves. Even if her point was legitimate (which it wasn't, not that she knew that,) she's admitted herself that she hasn't been to class since the '80's, so one would think she would focus more on learning than speaking outr of turn for the younger classmates.
@ Mizuki: I think it has to do with the fact that most people are driven by instinct to breed... I have zero interest in it, but because I'm young, people assume that I don't know what I'm talking about.
Also, I constantly think about telling kids to stfu when they cry, and kicking them when they're being stupid. biggrin  

[Slim95]

What that woman said was presumptuous and, from the sound of her retort (or rather, lack thereof), not suited for such a discussion… She should’ve just let you get along with your argument.

But you yourself sound presuming…

1) Well, doesn't that mean that I prove my knowledge, and that it is superior to (or at least deeper and more qualified than) her own?

That doesn’t strike you as even a little pretentious? Words such as those just quoted seem a bit harsh..... Some people process information differently, some process it more slowly, some just lack a knack for a certain type of learning.

And, to be frank, it doesn’t sound like much to make a big fuss over. A moment of grumbling and a glare, perhaps, but nothing to affect you so intensely. At least, you make it sound like it has affected you intensely.

Correct me if I’m wrong about any of this... Just working with what I've got.

As far as children goes... I'm not giving them a second thought these days. sweatdrop I don't generally get along with them, because I have little patience for their whining, though I can find them to be quite adorable at times... Atop this, I'm just not at a point in my life where they seem important. Perhaps in the future, when my biological clock is ticking and such (I hear it does that. Who knows?).... But right now... I'd just like to consider graduating high school. xd  

[The Dinosaur Next Door]

@ Slim: You're entirely correct. I am both presumptuous and concieted, and also unapologetic because I think I'm right. And this issue is relatively small, but at the time, I was quite upset because of her disregard for me and my feelings. I have a very strong way of communicating myself, but I'm not really upset, just frustrated and a little offended.
Despite all of this, I never once presumed to tell anyone my opinion of that woman, because I don't know her and I have an ounce of respect for her and her faculties (though, apparently, I shouldn't bother.)  

[lazycommie]

XxStephasaurusxXxRexxX

Okay, so I just got out of class from what must be THE most infuriating discussion so far. We're talking about "The Prophecy" by Anjana Appachana. We're talking specifically about whether or not Almira or Hemu is the nonconformist character, as relates to Indian social mores and the conversation with the astrologer (both of which are elements within the story.)

In trying to illustrate my point, I mention that I don't want kids because I think that I can use this to draw parallels to the story that we were discussing (specifically the social pressure placed on women in regards to childbearing and marriage.) As I expected, another groupmate asks me, "Why don't you want to have kids?" which I wanted to use to lead into my argument.

Then this woman cuts in and announces like she's some authority, "she's not ready. She's just not ready." Here's my issue with that:

1) She has shut down my arguments in the past, saying that I talk too much in class and make it difficult for her to follow the discussion. Well, doesn't that mean that I prove my knowledge, and that it is superior to (or at least deeper and more qualified than) her own?

2) She has admitted to me that I am intelligent and intimidating, and that she wishes she had my foresight in her youth. Wouldn't that indicate to her that I may have a better understanding of myself now than she did then?

3) We have never spoken beyond the two conversations that I just described, but she talks about my state of mind like she's some kind of expert as to what I want with my life. She also condescends to me that I'm not a mother, and so have no idea as to whether or not I am mother material.

4) She also refused to explain to me where she got the idea that I only tell people I don't want kids because I'm "not ready." She shut up immediately after that, and would not defend her statement.

The only thing I can think based on this information is that she was trying to make a sweeping generalization based on my youth and apply her basic understanding of today's teens to me. She happens to be immeasurably incorrect, and, I think, knows it, because she also has no factual basis for her claims. That's two logical fallacies in one statement, so, I pose the question to you, the ATG:

Is it really sensible in an intellectual discussion, to pose an argument riddled with logical fallacies and constructed without any factual documentation or proof, when the subject of your claim has proved that the presumptive assessment is incorrect (or at least invalid?)

Here's the spoon:
-people who make asinine assumptions
-people who talk about things they don't understand
-arguments that poke holes in themselves
-class debates
-the downfalls of the Socratic teaching method

1-2. From what I have seen, teachers hate it when students are smarter than them. Youre one of the "lucky" few who is, and as such the teacher will do that. Do as you will anyway.

3-4. Ah, I've met folks like that too. They're complete morons to operate under the assumptions that they do. Perhaps you should try to talk to her about it and set her straight?

To summarize: people are morons, don't let 'em get you down. 3nodding  

[Slim95]

@Steph: You seem to have told us what you think about her quite a lot already... And what do you mean you were "quite upset", but "not really upset"?  

[aretoo]

mrgreen  

[The Dinosaur Next Door]

@ Slim: Was upset, am not currently.
If I expressed any supposition as to this person's life or my opinions on her, that was out of my own inability to monitor my words. I've said nothing with the intent of being hurtful toward her, I only wanted to vent my frustration and perhaps gain perspective on the situation.
@ Lazy: "That woman" is not my teacher. My teacher is not a part of this scenario in the least... That's what really bugs me. She is in no way an authority on me in the slightest, but she apparently feels she's gleaned enough information on me to inform others of my life's goals.
Thanks for the kind words.  

[lazycommie]

XxStephasaurusxXxRexxX

@ Slim: Was upset, am not currently.
If I expressed any supposition as to this person's life or my opinions on her, that was out of my own inability to monitor my words. I've said nothing with the intent of being hurtful toward her, I only wanted to vent my frustration and perhaps gain perspective on the situation.
@ Lazy: "That woman" is not my teacher. My teacher is not a part of this scenario in the least... That's what really bugs me. She is in no way an authority on me in the slightest, but she apparently feels she's gleaned enough information on me to inform others of my life's goals.
Thanks for the kind words.

Oh, well in that case since you shouldn't have to deal with her much at all then, have at her. Go all out in explaining to her, in very minute detail, why she is full of s**t and should stop making asinine statements*.


*doing such a thing to a teacher is not advised. In my experience, if you do, the teacher is rather apt to do very bad things.