On the nature of crime, defense and cities/countries

[lazycommie]

This is a bit of a continuation of a discussion in another thread. It wwas stated that the US may as well go back to the "old west" style of handing things, basically with an armed citizenry and an efficient police force and organized on a very small scale(local levels). I agree, but this brings up a question(asked by another person).

What about if a group of criminals "founded and ran their own city"?

My answer to that is "that sounds like Chicago or DC", but in all seriousness it's just the same sort of risk one would apply in any city/country. When a leading body becomes a body of criminals, what is to be done?  

[God-The-RapistV2.0]

A society is a group of people who come together because they agree on certian aspects of life.

I see no reason why a group of "criminals" couldn't create a society.

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Art By: La Belle Isolde

 

[lazycommie]

God-The-RapistV2.0

A society is a group of people who come together because they agree on certian aspects of life.

I see no reason why a group of "criminals" couldn't create a society.

--------------------------------------------

Art By: La Belle Isolde

Depends on how you define criminal and society.  

[Erverain]

God, why are my Philosophy classes showing up in the real world...? This isn't the first I've heard of this.

Here I get to roll out Hobbes and his definitions of society.

Personally speaking, I'd think that a society founded by "criminals" would perhaps be incredibly law-abiding, since the "head-criminal" in charge of the society would be well aware of what the others are capable of, and be able to respond quickly if anything happened. And most criminal types would be reluctant to steal from a society in which anyone who broke its rules would be pretty much cast out. The whole "honor amongst thieves" argument, I guess. Er, excluding the current societal norm, but that's a different story, and I think that that mostly stems from psychological issues, and not philosophical ones.  

[lazycommie]

Erverain

God, why are my Philosophy classes showing up in the real world...? This isn't the first I've heard of this.

Here I get to roll out Hobbes and his definitions of society.

Personally speaking, I'd think that a society founded by "criminals" would perhaps be incredibly law-abiding, since the "head-criminal" in charge of the society would be well aware of what the others are capable of, and be able to respond quickly if anything happened. And most criminal types would be reluctant to steal from a society in which anyone who broke its rules would be pretty much cast out. The whole "honor amongst thieves" argument, I guess. Er, excluding the current societal norm, but that's a different story, and I think that that mostly stems from psychological issues, and not philosophical ones.

There's a book you should read, regarding criminal organizations. Donnie Brasco, it's written by an FBI agent who went deep undercover into the Mafia for a long time. The title of the book comes from the alias he used during the operation. Basically, there is no "honor amongst theives" and never has been. Everyone scams everyone, and if they're caught they usually wind up dead, but they still do it.  

[Erverain]

That's why I said "excluding the current societal norm." I never said that it wouldn't happen.  

[lazycommie]

I know. I was compelled to add on to that.  

[WiskersThCatfish]

God-The-RapistV2.0

A society is a group of people who come together because they agree on certian aspects of life.

I see no reason why a group of "criminals" couldn't create a society.

I think this is impossible.

A criminal is one who subsists by ripping off "innocents". They blend into the population, and secretly take what the need. A society has a foundation of laws, in order to be a criminal, one would have to live beneath them. This is assuming that the laws are there to begin with.

So that way, a whole town's worth of criminals would just end up stealing and pillaging one another to the point where it wouldn't be much of a community any more... a few people would own everything, and the rest would be dead or ran off.

If you're talking about a community of criminals, as in a roaming group who steal, I think we've already seen a lot of that in history. Vandals, Goths, Huns, and barbarians of all shapes and colors.

That wasn't just aimed at GTR, his post was just held the closest thing I could reply to, I think.