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 Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:24 pm
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:38 pm
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:00 pm
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:26 pm
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God-The-RapistV2.0  YEAH Buuuuut... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulseThey don't have to hit anything to make a shitload of damage. Just get NEAR and detonate in the atmosphere. Though I HIGHLY doubt they would try something like that so early with literally no backup plan. I mean it's not like they secretly took over Mexico or Canada and are laying in wait. Now something that would also be really smart would be to take out as many navel ships as possible with a barrage of missiles and then have sips move in and try to occupy the water though that may or may not be futile depending on how well thought out the strike is compared to the obvious counterstrike. This is all speculation and most probably never going to happen. -------------------------------------------- Art By: Trish The Stalker
"What you don't seem to understand is that I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me." - Rorschach
A single nuclear device(as used in large quantity, roughly 36 for HEMP, high altitude EMP) is not sufficient to EMP any significant area, nor disrupt the North American grid to any significant degree. You need around 36 or more to pull that off, they need to be positioned EXACTLY, and even then it won't be significant as the grid is redundant enough that power would only be down for a week or two.
If NK has that many nukes, they still can't get them over the country, because of our missile defense stuff. This subject is for me what law is for you.
NK may be stupid, but they're not stupid enough to launch against any powerful nation, or a nation allied with a powerful nation. Especially not if they attempted to HEMP the nation. They are small enough that MAD holds some water(as opposed to an old US/sov exchange, where MAD was a complete and utter fallacy based on a bogus concept of nuclear winter), as any attempt to use nuclear weapons would result in utter annihilation of all they hold dear.
Edited to add:
How I would deal with the situation, if I had access to the full capability of the US military:
Order North Korea's capitol bombed into dust, then glassed. First, chemical weapons. Preferably mustard agents and other such horrible things. No "15 seconds and you're dead" like the G agents and V agents do. Then hit it with fuel air bombs. Then with sufficient nukes to glass the city. Annex the remaining parts of North Korea and make them a new state. Claim the natural resources as our own, and then sell said resources to pull us out of debt.
This is how I propose to handle any international issues, really. Overwhelming, terrifying force, followed by annexation and sales. |
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:04 pm
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:15 pm
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Erverain lazycommie How I would deal with the situation, if I had access to the full capability of the US military: Order North Korea's capitol bombed into dust, then glassed. First, chemical weapons. Preferably mustard agents and other such horrible things. No "15 seconds and you're dead" like the G agents and V agents do. Then hit it with fuel air bombs. Then with sufficient nukes to glass the city. Annex the remaining parts of North Korea and make them a new state. Claim the natural resources as our own, and then sell said resources to pull us out of debt. This is how I propose to handle any international issues, really. Overwhelming, terrifying force, followed by annexation and sales. Except then we'd be the "terrorist nation." America has become the world's b***h at this point, and our hands are completely tied by regulations and treaties. Of course, it isn't like that would help anyway. NK is already run by a dead man. There was no succession for Kim Jong Il.
I have to disagree. The world only has the attitude they do with us because we don't use the force we can. Treaties, regulations and "international law" are bogus words that only we ever uphold, mostly pushed by cowardly politicians in nations that haven't fielded an army in a shooting conflict in 60 years, and haven't ever fielded a competent one. Really, such things are why we didn't win in Vietnam and haven't finished Iraq and Afghanistan quickly(if we wiped out Iran and Syria, Iraq would be rebuilt and a lovely country, as the people we're fighting there come from aforementioned two countries).
If the US did what I propose to any given nation(NK being ideal, since they're hated by everybody, even the Swiss), we'd set an example of "don't mess with us, or you're next", something that, as seen during the Cold War, works very well for making people shape up. Think about how there was, for the most part, peace during that period. Why? Because all the worthless little countries had to shape up and side with one of the two big boys or end up getting whooped by one or both nations, either economically or militarily. Now, however, there is only one "big boy", as the rest of the world fell apart since the Cold War(Russia, they still haven't rebuilt their military infrastructure after the fall), or was under our protection(W. Europe, who can't do anything right militarily), or hasn't developed into anything useful due to bad leadership(China). E. Europe is rather neutral in the whole deal, because they just don't care as long as they still have someone to sell their obsolete sov hardware to(and as long as there's Africa, they have a huge market).
In short: If the US decided to obliterate a nation that isn't really a threat, but likes to piss on our cheerios, the rest of the world would bend over in abject fear, since they can't do anything about it, nor could they ever. |
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:31 pm
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lazycommie God-The-RapistV2.0 YEAH Buuuuut... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulseThey don't have to hit anything to make a shitload of damage. Just get NEAR and detonate in the atmosphere. Though I HIGHLY doubt they would try something like that so early with literally no backup plan. I mean it's not like they secretly took over Mexico or Canada and are laying in wait. Now something that would also be really smart would be to take out as many navel ships as possible with a barrage of missiles and then have sips move in and try to occupy the water though that may or may not be futile depending on how well thought out the strike is compared to the obvious counterstrike. This is all speculation and most probably never going to happen. -------------------------------------------- Art By: Trish The Stalker
"What you don't seem to understand is that I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me." - Rorschach A single nuclear device(as used in large quantity, roughly 36 for HEMP, high altitude EMP) is not sufficient to EMP any significant area, nor disrupt the North American grid to any significant degree. You need around 36 or more to pull that off, they need to be positioned EXACTLY, and even then it won't be significant as the grid is redundant enough that power would only be down for a week or two. If NK has that many nukes, they still can't get them over the country, because of our missile defense stuff. This subject is for me what law is for you. NK may be stupid, but they're not stupid enough to launch against any powerful nation, or a nation allied with a powerful nation. Especially not if they attempted to HEMP the nation. They are small enough that MAD holds some water(as opposed to an old US/sov exchange, where MAD was a complete and utter fallacy based on a bogus concept of nuclear winter), as any attempt to use nuclear weapons would result in utter annihilation of all they hold dear. Edited to add: How I would deal with the situation, if I had access to the full capability of the US military: Order North Korea's capitol bombed into dust, then glassed. First, chemical weapons. Preferably mustard agents and other such horrible things. No "15 seconds and you're dead" like the G agents and V agents do. Then hit it with fuel air bombs. Then with sufficient nukes to glass the city. Annex the remaining parts of North Korea and make them a new state. Claim the natural resources as our own, and then sell said resources to pull us out of debt. This is how I propose to handle any international issues, really. Overwhelming, terrifying force, followed by annexation and sales.
You're right, I know as much about this as you do about Law. So I will concede to your statements.
I do have to question the motives that you have for wanting to not only destroy but make suffer the Koreans.
--------------------------------------------
Art By: Trish The Stalker
"What you don't seem to understand is that I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me." - Rorschach |
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:56 pm
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:02 pm
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God-The-RapistV2.0 lazycommie God-The-RapistV2.0 YEAH Buuuuut... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulseThey don't have to hit anything to make a shitload of damage. Just get NEAR and detonate in the atmosphere. Though I HIGHLY doubt they would try something like that so early with literally no backup plan. I mean it's not like they secretly took over Mexico or Canada and are laying in wait. Now something that would also be really smart would be to take out as many navel ships as possible with a barrage of missiles and then have sips move in and try to occupy the water though that may or may not be futile depending on how well thought out the strike is compared to the obvious counterstrike. This is all speculation and most probably never going to happen. -------------------------------------------- Art By: Trish The Stalker
"What you don't seem to understand is that I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me." - Rorschach A single nuclear device(as used in large quantity, roughly 36 for HEMP, high altitude EMP) is not sufficient to EMP any significant area, nor disrupt the North American grid to any significant degree. You need around 36 or more to pull that off, they need to be positioned EXACTLY, and even then it won't be significant as the grid is redundant enough that power would only be down for a week or two. If NK has that many nukes, they still can't get them over the country, because of our missile defense stuff. This subject is for me what law is for you. NK may be stupid, but they're not stupid enough to launch against any powerful nation, or a nation allied with a powerful nation. Especially not if they attempted to HEMP the nation. They are small enough that MAD holds some water(as opposed to an old US/sov exchange, where MAD was a complete and utter fallacy based on a bogus concept of nuclear winter), as any attempt to use nuclear weapons would result in utter annihilation of all they hold dear. Edited to add: How I would deal with the situation, if I had access to the full capability of the US military: Order North Korea's capitol bombed into dust, then glassed. First, chemical weapons. Preferably mustard agents and other such horrible things. No "15 seconds and you're dead" like the G agents and V agents do. Then hit it with fuel air bombs. Then with sufficient nukes to glass the city. Annex the remaining parts of North Korea and make them a new state. Claim the natural resources as our own, and then sell said resources to pull us out of debt. This is how I propose to handle any international issues, really. Overwhelming, terrifying force, followed by annexation and sales.
You're right, I know as much about this as you do about Law. So I will concede to your statements.
I do have to question the motives that you have for wanting to not only destroy but make suffer the Koreans.
-------------------------------------------- Art By: Trish The Stalker
"What you don't seem to understand is that I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me." - Rorschach
I was not so much arguing with you as adding to. If a nuclear armed nation had enough nukes to pull off HEMP, and the tech to do it(only the US, Russia and China do), it's a devistating thing. Not because it kills the grid permanently, but because it "blinds" the target long enough to get a second volley of weapons in. HEMP is better thought of as an EM smokescreen than as a weapon.
I forget which university it is, but one of them publishes(and has online for free) a simple guide to surviving a US/sov nuclear war, which has a lot of good info, even though it doesn't cover the modern things like HEMP and is mostly focused on debunking things like nuclear winter and fallout killing everything, as well as describing shelters and such. It's a very good read. It's called Nuclear War Survival Skills.
As for my reason of using such horrifying force? Simple. To make an example. "This is what we'll do if you even make the pretense of messing with us". Also note that it's not even all of NK that would be a target. All modern nuclear warheads are small enough that they wouldn't even be sufficient to kill the capitol with a single hit. By using them en-masse, they serve as a suitable mop up and final intimidation weapon, rather than killing the majority of people off. You'd see the capitol(the name escapes me right now) wiped clean of all life. That's the best thing about the old mustard agents. They hang around for days to a week, scare the living hell out of everybody because of what they do; they kill primarily by causing your throat to close up due to irritation, although they don't have a high casualty rate. On second thought, perhaps a choking agent like diphosgene would be better? Slightly less hellish, but more thorough in that you have no real treatment for them and death is virtually certain. I'm rambling now, aren't I? By using horrible methods, you show the rest of the world that we're not afraid to use such things if you mess with us, and so make all our threats credible threats again.
This would also have a huge affect on the "war on terror" on the homefront as the leaders of the enemy would be less apt to attempt terror attacks against the US, although the war abroad would be a different matter. We would be able to safely get rid of a lot of out illusion of safety security crap.
You could think of it as a layered approach. All living things killed(chemical agents), followed by buildings leveled(carpet bombing with fuel air bombs and heavy conventional explosives), followed by "clean up"(clean nukes like all modern ones are, to flatten and sterilize it for a while). The areas not targeted would be essentially untouched, unlike in conventional war, and so countless lives would be spared while still carrying out enough of an act to make a point. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:08 pm
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Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:28 pm
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TurtIe Tracks I.. know pretty much nothing about the military (or law, for that matter) so I will also assume that you (lazycommie) are correct about what you said. But I still don't think it's right to just nuke the capital and in such a way that'll give the North Koreans a lot of pain. I highly doubt that leaders like Kim Jong Il really care if we have the ability and/or the guts to do that to their citizens, I mean they already have no freedom and there are an estimated 200,000 in prison camps... not to mention like everyone in the country is starving to death. And you can say that the leaders care because they value their appearance, but really everyone already has a terrible impression of Kim Jong Il outside North Korea and inside it it doesn't really matter because everyone's brainwashed into either liking him or pretending they do.
No politician cares about the people. However, they do care about power and not being vaporized by a nuclear bombardment, being gassed to death or dying in a hellstorm of FAE's(which are banned under bogus international law because they work). Basically it's saying, "you're not safe, if you piss us off we will make sure you are dead, as well as everything around you for 20 miles".
The citizens of the nation really matter not, putting the madman in his place and getting all the other madmen to learn to STFU and pretend to love us, does. |
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:18 pm
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lazycommie TurtIe Tracks I.. know pretty much nothing about the military (or law, for that matter) so I will also assume that you (lazycommie) are correct about what you said. But I still don't think it's right to just nuke the capital and in such a way that'll give the North Koreans a lot of pain. I highly doubt that leaders like Kim Jong Il really care if we have the ability and/or the guts to do that to their citizens, I mean they already have no freedom and there are an estimated 200,000 in prison camps... not to mention like everyone in the country is starving to death. And you can say that the leaders care because they value their appearance, but really everyone already has a terrible impression of Kim Jong Il outside North Korea and inside it it doesn't really matter because everyone's brainwashed into either liking him or pretending they do. No politician cares about the people. However, they do care about power and not being vaporized by a nuclear bombardment, being gassed to death or dying in a hellstorm of FAE's(which are banned under bogus international law because they work). Basically it's saying, "you're not safe, if you piss us off we will make sure you are dead, as well as everything around you for 20 miles". The citizens of the nation really matter not, putting the madman in his place and getting all the other madmen to learn to STFU and pretend to love us, does. |
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:09 pm
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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:33 pm
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