Purgatory discussion

[Her-Infernal-Sentinal]

Do you believe in it do you not if you you do please state some evidence on why you do. As for myself i honestly don't know.  

[Her-Infernal-Sentinal]

anyone?  

[Shadows-shine]

No, I don't. There is no scriptural basis for it. Plus the whole idea of believing that if you tithed a whole bunch of money in your mortal life, you have a better chance of getting out of purgertory...is not exactly just. It makes God sound selfish and conceited and that all He wants is money so you can get out of limbo.  

[-8Deleting Soon8-]

"hhhgggmm well im catholic so i have to but there is scriptural basis when jesus died he decended into lowercase hell is the best way to describe it and he took all the people who died before his coming into heaven he lowercase hell was at that time purgatory and all the bad siners went to upper case Hell and after he came back there was no lowercase hell anymore it was purgatory witch makes up the three levels of Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell but most other churches dont beleive in it except the Roman Catholic Church

questions  

[-8Deleting Soon8-]

Shadows-shine

No, I don't. There is no scriptural basis for it. Plus the whole idea of believing that if you tithed a whole bunch of money in your mortal life, you have a better chance of getting out of purgertory...is not exactly just. It makes God sound selfish and conceited and that all He wants is money so you can get out of limbo.

and the only way you can go to heaven quicker is by prayers from people on earth!!! i dont like you or how you said that you offend me  

[Shadows-shine]

Yoshimordi

Shadows-shine

No, I don't. There is no scriptural basis for it. Plus the whole idea of believing that if you tithed a whole bunch of money in your mortal life, you have a better chance of getting out of purgertory...is not exactly just. It makes God sound selfish and conceited and that all He wants is money so you can get out of limbo.

and the only way you can go to heaven quicker is by prayers from people on earth!!! i dont like you or how you said that you offend me

I wasn't stating it to offend any one. I was merely pointing out my feelings about what I had heard.  

[-8Deleting Soon8-]

Shadows-shine

Yoshimordi

Shadows-shine

No, I don't. There is no scriptural basis for it. Plus the whole idea of believing that if you tithed a whole bunch of money in your mortal life, you have a better chance of getting out of purgertory...is not exactly just. It makes God sound selfish and conceited and that all He wants is money so you can get out of limbo.

and the only way you can go to heaven quicker is by prayers from people on earth!!! i dont like you or how you said that you offend me

I wasn't stating it to offend any one. I was merely pointing out my feelings about what I had heard.

exactly what you herd dont beleive everything you hear  

[Shadows-shine]

Yoshimordi

Shadows-shine

Yoshimordi

Shadows-shine

No, I don't. There is no scriptural basis for it. Plus the whole idea of believing that if you tithed a whole bunch of money in your mortal life, you have a better chance of getting out of purgertory...is not exactly just. It makes God sound selfish and conceited and that all He wants is money so you can get out of limbo.

and the only way you can go to heaven quicker is by prayers from people on earth!!! i dont like you or how you said that you offend me

I wasn't stating it to offend any one. I was merely pointing out my feelings about what I had heard.

exactly what you herd dont beleive everything you hear

Well I do have an open mind and am always willing to learn new things.  

[-8Deleting Soon8-]

Shadows-shine

Yoshimordi

Shadows-shine

Yoshimordi

Shadows-shine

No, I don't. There is no scriptural basis for it. Plus the whole idea of believing that if you tithed a whole bunch of money in your mortal life, you have a better chance of getting out of purgertory...is not exactly just. It makes God sound selfish and conceited and that all He wants is money so you can get out of limbo.

and the only way you can go to heaven quicker is by prayers from people on earth!!! i dont like you or how you said that you offend me

I wasn't stating it to offend any one. I was merely pointing out my feelings about what I had heard.

exactly what you herd dont beleive everything you hear

Well I do have an open mind and am always willing to learn new things.

oh well freinds
oh and heres a good song copy and paste it on youtubeits from soul eaters
Soul Eater OST Track 9 - BLACK☆STAR (never lose myself)  

[Saint Crazy The Follower]

...on topic, there really is no basis for purgatory. I have no reason to believe in it because God never said anything about it.

Also, just because a person labels themselves Catholic, or anything else, never means you HAVE to believe in something. What you believe is determined by your own discerning, and yours alone, not necessarily a church or orthodoxy.  

[daddinar]

Shadows-shine

No, I don't. There is no scriptural basis for it. Plus the whole idea of believing that if you tithed a whole bunch of money in your mortal life, you have a better chance of getting out of purgertory...is not exactly just. It makes God sound selfish and conceited and that all He wants is money so you can get out of limbo.

That practice was abolished a long time ago in the Catholic Church. It is wrong and is only plunging your soul and their's in greater peril thinking money will get you eternal life.  

[daddinar]

Saint Crazy The Follower

...on topic, there really is no basis for purgatory. I have no reason to believe in it because God never said anything about it.

Also, just because a person labels themselves Catholic, or anything else, never means you HAVE to believe in something. What you believe is determined by your own discerning, and yours alone, not necessarily a church or orthodoxy.

What I find funny is that there is plenty of mention of Purgatory in the Bible if you know what you're looking for. It is also common sense. In Hell, you cannot go to Heaven so there is no point in praying for you. If you are in Heaven, there is also no point since you are with God and you aren't going anywhere else. Also, being in Heaven means you were forgiven of your sins. If there was no purgatory, then everyone would be going to Hell. Purgatory is a state more than an actual place. It is the embodiment of God's mercy in which out souls are cleansed in fire. Remember that in the Bible as well? He speaks about the refining of gold through fire.

The name is not specifically in Scripture, it's true. "Purgatory" is the name given to it. Other words also aren't spoken about in scripture like "Trinity" or "Incarnation".

Here:

Quote:

"Purgatory Not in Scripture"


Some Fundamentalists also charge, as though it actually proved something, "The word purgatory is nowhere found in Scripture." This is true, and yet it does not disprove the existence of purgatory or the fact that belief in it has always been part of Church teaching. The words Trinity and Incarnation aren’t in Scripture either, yet those doctrines are clearly taught in it. Likewise, Scripture teaches that purgatory exists, even if it doesn’t use that word and even if 1 Peter 3:19 refers to a place other than purgatory.

Christ refers to the sinner who "will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come" (Matt. 12:32), suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins. Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? "He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering ("fire") there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.

Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead: "In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin" (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell. That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily. This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that, at the time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.

Prayers for the dead and the consequent doctrine of purgatory have been part of the true religion since before the time of Christ. Not only can we show it was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees, but it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the Mourner’s Kaddish for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified. It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory. Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches, which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians.

 

[starry night-163]

Yoshimordi

Shadows-shine

No, I don't. There is no scriptural basis for it. Plus the whole idea of believing that if you tithed a whole bunch of money in your mortal life, you have a better chance of getting out of purgertory...is not exactly just. It makes God sound selfish and conceited and that all He wants is money so you can get out of limbo.

and the only way you can go to heaven quicker is by prayers from people on earth!!! i dont like you or how you said that you offend me

You what?! I'm sorry my friend but you are sadly... sadly mistaken. You CAN NOT get to heaven by prayer, that is a work and you cannot get to heaven based on works and to believe you get to heaven by prayer means you deny Jesus is the only way.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 4:5
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

My friend you are saved by faith and nothing else, however that does not mean you can skip repentance(to stop sinning and repentance is a continual thing you can't just do it once you do it every time you sin)

Luke 13:3 and Luke 13:5 both say
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Romans 6: 14-16
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.  

[starry night-163]

PhantomHoofbeats

Saint Crazy The Follower

...on topic, there really is no basis for purgatory. I have no reason to believe in it because God never said anything about it.

Also, just because a person labels themselves Catholic, or anything else, never means you HAVE to believe in something. What you believe is determined by your own discerning, and yours alone, not necessarily a church or orthodoxy.

What I find funny is that there is plenty of mention of Purgatory in the Bible if you know what you're looking for. It is also common sense. In Hell, you cannot go to Heaven so there is no point in praying for you. If you are in Heaven, there is also no point since you are with God and you aren't going anywhere else. Also, being in Heaven means you were forgiven of your sins. If there was no purgatory, then everyone would be going to Hell. Purgatory is a state more than an actual place. It is the embodiment of God's mercy in which out souls are cleansed in fire. Remember that in the Bible as well? He speaks about the refining of gold through fire.

The name is not specifically in Scripture, it's true. "Purgatory" is the name given to it. Other words also aren't spoken about in scripture like "Trinity" or "Incarnation".

Here:

Quote:

"Purgatory Not in Scripture"


Some Fundamentalists also charge, as though it actually proved something, "The word purgatory is nowhere found in Scripture." This is true, and yet it does not disprove the existence of purgatory or the fact that belief in it has always been part of Church teaching. The words Trinity and Incarnation aren’t in Scripture either, yet those doctrines are clearly taught in it. Likewise, Scripture teaches that purgatory exists, even if it doesn’t use that word and even if 1 Peter 3:19 refers to a place other than purgatory.

Christ refers to the sinner who "will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come" (Matt. 12:32), suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins. Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? "He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering ("fire") there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.

Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead: "In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin" (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell. That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily. This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that, at the time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.

Prayers for the dead and the consequent doctrine of purgatory have been part of the true religion since before the time of Christ. Not only can we show it was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees, but it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the Mourner’s Kaddish for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified. It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory. Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches, which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians.

For God to send you to purgatory would make him unjust because he must punish and he is not currupt. On top of that believing in purgatory means you believe that Jesus is not the only way to heaven which he is.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.  

[Her-Infernal-Sentinal]

starry night-163

PhantomHoofbeats

Saint Crazy The Follower

...on topic, there really is no basis for purgatory. I have no reason to believe in it because God never said anything about it.

Also, just because a person labels themselves Catholic, or anything else, never means you HAVE to believe in something. What you believe is determined by your own discerning, and yours alone, not necessarily a church or orthodoxy.

What I find funny is that there is plenty of mention of Purgatory in the Bible if you know what you're looking for. It is also common sense. In Hell, you cannot go to Heaven so there is no point in praying for you. If you are in Heaven, there is also no point since you are with God and you aren't going anywhere else. Also, being in Heaven means you were forgiven of your sins. If there was no purgatory, then everyone would be going to Hell. Purgatory is a state more than an actual place. It is the embodiment of God's mercy in which out souls are cleansed in fire. Remember that in the Bible as well? He speaks about the refining of gold through fire.

The name is not specifically in Scripture, it's true. "Purgatory" is the name given to it. Other words also aren't spoken about in scripture like "Trinity" or "Incarnation".

Here:

Quote:

"Purgatory Not in Scripture"


Some Fundamentalists also charge, as though it actually proved something, "The word purgatory is nowhere found in Scripture." This is true, and yet it does not disprove the existence of purgatory or the fact that belief in it has always been part of Church teaching. The words Trinity and Incarnation aren’t in Scripture either, yet those doctrines are clearly taught in it. Likewise, Scripture teaches that purgatory exists, even if it doesn’t use that word and even if 1 Peter 3:19 refers to a place other than purgatory.

Christ refers to the sinner who "will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come" (Matt. 12:32), suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins. Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? "He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering ("fire") there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.

Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead: "In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin" (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell. That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily. This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that, at the time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.

Prayers for the dead and the consequent doctrine of purgatory have been part of the true religion since before the time of Christ. Not only can we show it was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees, but it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the Mourner’s Kaddish for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified. It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory. Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches, which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians.

For God to send you to purgatory would make him unjust because he must punish and he is not currupt. On top of that believing in purgatory means you believe that Jesus is not the only way to heaven which he is.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

AMEN TO THAT SISTER