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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:14 am
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When I was a kid, my Mom always told me to read Revelation after I've read the whole entire Bible so I never read Revelation until I was married and out of the house. I've read it time and time over and over again and it's all interesting to me.
I Googled stuff about the book and some Christians believe that it was about the fall of Rome, but it doesn't match up to be the fall of Rome so why do some people believe that?
A lot of Christians are saying it was about the past and isn't by any degree about the future and that doesn't match up either?
Why can't Revelation be taken literally? People keep saying it has so many metaphors and symbolism that makes it an incredibly difficult book? While others say, "Oh, it can't be taken literally." I say, "Why not? He put the plagues upon Egypt in order to free his people so why couldn't he make locusts that had the faces of a human, hair of a woman, and tail of a scorpion that has the power to torment for five months?"
Also, one last thing. Why do people underestimate God so much? I feel that they underestimate him quite often.
I'm not trying to cause an argument, but these have been some questions on my mind and it would be interesting to see different view points and beliefs about it since I find it an overall interesting book. I also like to see what others believe about it so I'm aware of the other beliefs about it and all of that.
I also don't believe churches talk about it enough, but I don't know if it's because they're afraid to teach on it and afraid they'll be wrong or if they don't care for the book in general, or maybe don't want to chase away people.
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:40 am
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Yeah, Revelation is probably one of the most difficult books of the Bible to read. Something very important, in my opinion, is the problem of reading in an overly-literal way. Let me elaborate just a little bit more.
In the first few books of the New Testament, Jesus is shown teaching using parables, stories that are pretty much entirely symbolic but crafted to help people understand what he wanted them to know. That is, we have clear and obvious precedent of the Lord communicating with us via stories. So I think it's important to remember that in other times when the Lord is speaking or revealing something, He may be doing it a symbolic, less-than-literal sort of way in order to help us understand the ideas, and not necessarily specific events, better. May. In fact, Revelation could, in fact, be literal, and I don't want to close my mind by assuming it isn't. I just think that, while possible, it's less-likely than the idea that most or all of the book is symbolic.
For the churches, teaching on Revelation mostly involves fire and brimstone and people on the side of the street screaming about the end of the world. One day, they'll be right, too. XD; I think churches prefer to focus on more immediate ideas, like helping teach people how to live a more righteous life. After all, it's not like we can do anything about the end of the world, so what's the point in getting all worked up about it? It's basically just God wrapping up his plan for us while we're on this planet.
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:34 am
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:04 pm
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Rednal Yeah, Revelation is probably one of the most difficult books of the Bible to read. Something very important, in my opinion, is the problem of reading in an overly-literal way. Let me elaborate just a little bit more. In the first few books of the New Testament, Jesus is shown teaching using parables, stories that are pretty much entirely symbolic but crafted to help people understand what he wanted them to know. That is, we have clear and obvious precedent of the Lord communicating with us via stories. So I think it's important to remember that in other times when the Lord is speaking or revealing something, He may be doing it a symbolic, less-than-literal sort of way in order to help us understand the ideas, and not necessarily specific events, better. May. In fact, Revelation could, in fact, be literal, and I don't want to close my mind by assuming it isn't. I just think that, while possible, it's less-likely than the idea that most or all of the book is symbolic. For the churches, teaching on Revelation mostly involves fire and brimstone and people on the side of the street screaming about the end of the world. One day, they'll be right, too. XD; I think churches prefer to focus on more immediate ideas, like helping teach people how to live a more righteous life. After all, it's not like we can do anything about the end of the world, so what's the point in getting all worked up about it? It's basically just God wrapping up his plan for us while we're on this planet.
Well, yes. I've seen some churches fall apart by being over-literal when something really means something else, but they do it anyway and it's illogical. I just believe that what's in Revelation is all too real and I believe that there is symbolism in there and I don't underestimate God's power and I don't believe I take it over the top. I just like to hear other points of view and all of that since it's just one of those books that people have something to say on most of the time.
I'm not getting worked up about it, I'm just curious about what other people have to say about it and why. Curiosity is all it is.
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:07 pm
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:11 am
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Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:14 pm
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Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:17 pm
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Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:19 pm
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:39 pm
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Aquatic_blue When I was a kid, my Mom always told me to read Revelation after I've read the whole entire Bible so I never read Revelation until I was married and out of the house. I've read it time and time over and over again and it's all interesting to me. I Googled stuff about the book and some Christians believe that it was about the fall of Rome, but it doesn't match up to be the fall of Rome so why do some people believe that? A lot of Christians are saying it was about the past and isn't by any degree about the future and that doesn't match up either? Why can't Revelation be taken literally? People keep saying it has so many metaphors and symbolism that makes it an incredibly difficult book? While others say, "Oh, it can't be taken literally." I say, "Why not? He put the plagues upon Egypt in order to free his people so why couldn't he make locusts that had the faces of a human, hair of a woman, and tail of a scorpion that has the power to torment for five months?" Also, one last thing. Why do people underestimate God so much? I feel that they underestimate him quite often. I'm not trying to cause an argument, but these have been some questions on my mind and it would be interesting to see different view points and beliefs about it since I find it an overall interesting book. I also like to see what others believe about it so I'm aware of the other beliefs about it and all of that. I also don't believe churches talk about it enough, but I don't know if it's because they're afraid to teach on it and afraid they'll be wrong or if they don't care for the book in general, or maybe don't want to chase away people. Revelation is a book for the future. It didn't happen in the past. The most confusing part for me is the connection between tribulation and rapture, because preachers and pastors have different interpretations on it. Some of them believe that rapture is going to happen before tribulation [I believe that too], some says it will occur in the middle of tribulation and they say that the most popular is at the end of tribulation. Honestly, it scares me. There's a possibility that it's gonna happen literally.
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:30 pm
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Feidetic Aquatic_blue When I was a kid, my Mom always told me to read Revelation after I've read the whole entire Bible so I never read Revelation until I was married and out of the house. I've read it time and time over and over again and it's all interesting to me. I Googled stuff about the book and some Christians believe that it was about the fall of Rome, but it doesn't match up to be the fall of Rome so why do some people believe that? A lot of Christians are saying it was about the past and isn't by any degree about the future and that doesn't match up either? Why can't Revelation be taken literally? People keep saying it has so many metaphors and symbolism that makes it an incredibly difficult book? While others say, "Oh, it can't be taken literally." I say, "Why not? He put the plagues upon Egypt in order to free his people so why couldn't he make locusts that had the faces of a human, hair of a woman, and tail of a scorpion that has the power to torment for five months?" Also, one last thing. Why do people underestimate God so much? I feel that they underestimate him quite often. I'm not trying to cause an argument, but these have been some questions on my mind and it would be interesting to see different view points and beliefs about it since I find it an overall interesting book. I also like to see what others believe about it so I'm aware of the other beliefs about it and all of that. I also don't believe churches talk about it enough, but I don't know if it's because they're afraid to teach on it and afraid they'll be wrong or if they don't care for the book in general, or maybe don't want to chase away people. Revelation is a book for the future. It didn't happen in the past. The most confusing part for me is the connection between tribulation and rapture, because preachers and pastors have different interpretations on it. Some of them believe that rapture is going to happen before tribulation [I believe that too], some says it will occur in the middle of tribulation and they say that the most popular is at the end of tribulation. Honestly, it scares me. There's a possibility that it's gonna happen literally.
I understand your confusion between tribulation and rapture. Although, it's not 100% clear I suppose what will happen to all the believers. It does give detail about a lot of things, but I suppose only faith can make us 100% sure. I've heard some preachers say, "Oh, we're going to be taken up to Heaven before it all ends." while another says, "We're going to stay for part of it and then be taken into the Heaven's with Jesus." There are a few who say, "We'll see it all, and then be taken up to Heaven." I've heard more of before it happens and in the middle than in the end, but it's always possible that more will believe after it all happens. Yeah, it is a scary thing to think about, but there's also some verses in the Bible that are of some comfort (even one or so in Revelation):
Revelation 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Some people may say, "Oh, that's not comforting at all." If you think about it, if we're fully on God's side then we don't have to worry about a whole lot. If our faith is in him always, we may have to worry about a physical death, or physical harm (maybe even emotional), but what can never be harmed unless we let it is our spiritual well-being. If we suffer a physical death and remain true to God's word even in the roughest of times, I believe that the gift of eternity will be more than anyone could ever ask for, and will be worth it in the end. Being marked by God would sure be better than having the mark of the beast.
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:34 pm
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Aquatic_blue Feidetic Aquatic_blue When I was a kid, my Mom always told me to read Revelation after I've read the whole entire Bible so I never read Revelation until I was married and out of the house. I've read it time and time over and over again and it's all interesting to me. I Googled stuff about the book and some Christians believe that it was about the fall of Rome, but it doesn't match up to be the fall of Rome so why do some people believe that? A lot of Christians are saying it was about the past and isn't by any degree about the future and that doesn't match up either? Why can't Revelation be taken literally? People keep saying it has so many metaphors and symbolism that makes it an incredibly difficult book? While others say, "Oh, it can't be taken literally." I say, "Why not? He put the plagues upon Egypt in order to free his people so why couldn't he make locusts that had the faces of a human, hair of a woman, and tail of a scorpion that has the power to torment for five months?" Also, one last thing. Why do people underestimate God so much? I feel that they underestimate him quite often. I'm not trying to cause an argument, but these have been some questions on my mind and it would be interesting to see different view points and beliefs about it since I find it an overall interesting book. I also like to see what others believe about it so I'm aware of the other beliefs about it and all of that. I also don't believe churches talk about it enough, but I don't know if it's because they're afraid to teach on it and afraid they'll be wrong or if they don't care for the book in general, or maybe don't want to chase away people. Revelation is a book for the future. It didn't happen in the past. The most confusing part for me is the connection between tribulation and rapture, because preachers and pastors have different interpretations on it. Some of them believe that rapture is going to happen before tribulation [I believe that too], some says it will occur in the middle of tribulation and they say that the most popular is at the end of tribulation. Honestly, it scares me. There's a possibility that it's gonna happen literally. I understand your confusion between tribulation and rapture. Although, it's not 100% clear I suppose what will happen to all the believers. It does give detail about a lot of things, but I suppose only faith can make us 100% sure. I've heard some preachers say, "Oh, we're going to be taken up to Heaven before it all ends." while another says, "We're going to stay for part of it and then be taken into the Heaven's with Jesus." There are a few who say, "We'll see it all, and then be taken up to Heaven." I've heard more of before it happens and in the middle than in the end, but it's always possible that more will believe after it all happens. Yeah, it is a scary thing to think about, but there's also some verses in the Bible that are of some comfort (even one or so in Revelation): Revelation 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. Some people may say, "Oh, that's not comforting at all." If you think about it, if we're fully on God's side then we don't have to worry about a whole lot. If our faith is in him always, we may have to worry about a physical death, or physical harm (maybe even emotional), but what can never be harmed unless we let it is our spiritual well-being. If we suffer a physical death and remain true to God's word even in the roughest of times, I believe that the gift of eternity will be more than anyone could ever ask for, and will be worth it in the end. Being marked by God would sure be better than having the mark of the beast.
The sad part is, I'm not scared for myself anymore. I'm scared for the people I care for that makes me wonder if I could change what they believe. But that's enough to save them right?
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Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:36 pm
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Feidetic Aquatic_blue Feidetic Aquatic_blue When I was a kid, my Mom always told me to read Revelation after I've read the whole entire Bible so I never read Revelation until I was married and out of the house. I've read it time and time over and over again and it's all interesting to me. I Googled stuff about the book and some Christians believe that it was about the fall of Rome, but it doesn't match up to be the fall of Rome so why do some people believe that? A lot of Christians are saying it was about the past and isn't by any degree about the future and that doesn't match up either? Why can't Revelation be taken literally? People keep saying it has so many metaphors and symbolism that makes it an incredibly difficult book? While others say, "Oh, it can't be taken literally." I say, "Why not? He put the plagues upon Egypt in order to free his people so why couldn't he make locusts that had the faces of a human, hair of a woman, and tail of a scorpion that has the power to torment for five months?" Also, one last thing. Why do people underestimate God so much? I feel that they underestimate him quite often. I'm not trying to cause an argument, but these have been some questions on my mind and it would be interesting to see different view points and beliefs about it since I find it an overall interesting book. I also like to see what others believe about it so I'm aware of the other beliefs about it and all of that. I also don't believe churches talk about it enough, but I don't know if it's because they're afraid to teach on it and afraid they'll be wrong or if they don't care for the book in general, or maybe don't want to chase away people. Revelation is a book for the future. It didn't happen in the past. The most confusing part for me is the connection between tribulation and rapture, because preachers and pastors have different interpretations on it. Some of them believe that rapture is going to happen before tribulation [I believe that too], some says it will occur in the middle of tribulation and they say that the most popular is at the end of tribulation. Honestly, it scares me. There's a possibility that it's gonna happen literally. I understand your confusion between tribulation and rapture. Although, it's not 100% clear I suppose what will happen to all the believers. It does give detail about a lot of things, but I suppose only faith can make us 100% sure. I've heard some preachers say, "Oh, we're going to be taken up to Heaven before it all ends." while another says, "We're going to stay for part of it and then be taken into the Heaven's with Jesus." There are a few who say, "We'll see it all, and then be taken up to Heaven." I've heard more of before it happens and in the middle than in the end, but it's always possible that more will believe after it all happens. Yeah, it is a scary thing to think about, but there's also some verses in the Bible that are of some comfort (even one or so in Revelation): Revelation 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. Some people may say, "Oh, that's not comforting at all." If you think about it, if we're fully on God's side then we don't have to worry about a whole lot. If our faith is in him always, we may have to worry about a physical death, or physical harm (maybe even emotional), but what can never be harmed unless we let it is our spiritual well-being. If we suffer a physical death and remain true to God's word even in the roughest of times, I believe that the gift of eternity will be more than anyone could ever ask for, and will be worth it in the end. Being marked by God would sure be better than having the mark of the beast. The sad part is, I'm not scared for myself anymore. I'm scared for the people I care for that makes me wonder if I could change what they believe. But that's enough to save them right?
That makes plenty of sense. It's good that you care about others. I also worry about people I know. I suppose a majority of Christians probably have the issue about wanting to save their non-Christian friends. I always say we should pray for those people that they would come to God, confess their sins, and repent and turn their life towards him and be saved =] and sometimes just being a Christian and hanging around people that aren't believers, sometimes what we have rubs off on others like good morals. Sometimes if you notice, if your friends know you don't like certain types of talk like maybe gossip or bad language, they'll try to refrain from doing it around you and makin' you upset. I think that good morals can be contagious to others. We just need to be the best influence we can be without being too pushy =]
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Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 5:55 pm
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Aquatic_blue Feidetic Aquatic_blue Feidetic Aquatic_blue When I was a kid, my Mom always told me to read Revelation after I've read the whole entire Bible so I never read Revelation until I was married and out of the house. I've read it time and time over and over again and it's all interesting to me. I Googled stuff about the book and some Christians believe that it was about the fall of Rome, but it doesn't match up to be the fall of Rome so why do some people believe that? A lot of Christians are saying it was about the past and isn't by any degree about the future and that doesn't match up either? Why can't Revelation be taken literally? People keep saying it has so many metaphors and symbolism that makes it an incredibly difficult book? While others say, "Oh, it can't be taken literally." I say, "Why not? He put the plagues upon Egypt in order to free his people so why couldn't he make locusts that had the faces of a human, hair of a woman, and tail of a scorpion that has the power to torment for five months?" Also, one last thing. Why do people underestimate God so much? I feel that they underestimate him quite often. I'm not trying to cause an argument, but these have been some questions on my mind and it would be interesting to see different view points and beliefs about it since I find it an overall interesting book. I also like to see what others believe about it so I'm aware of the other beliefs about it and all of that. I also don't believe churches talk about it enough, but I don't know if it's because they're afraid to teach on it and afraid they'll be wrong or if they don't care for the book in general, or maybe don't want to chase away people. Revelation is a book for the future. It didn't happen in the past. The most confusing part for me is the connection between tribulation and rapture, because preachers and pastors have different interpretations on it. Some of them believe that rapture is going to happen before tribulation [I believe that too], some says it will occur in the middle of tribulation and they say that the most popular is at the end of tribulation. Honestly, it scares me. There's a possibility that it's gonna happen literally. I understand your confusion between tribulation and rapture. Although, it's not 100% clear I suppose what will happen to all the believers. It does give detail about a lot of things, but I suppose only faith can make us 100% sure. I've heard some preachers say, "Oh, we're going to be taken up to Heaven before it all ends." while another says, "We're going to stay for part of it and then be taken into the Heaven's with Jesus." There are a few who say, "We'll see it all, and then be taken up to Heaven." I've heard more of before it happens and in the middle than in the end, but it's always possible that more will believe after it all happens. Yeah, it is a scary thing to think about, but there's also some verses in the Bible that are of some comfort (even one or so in Revelation): Revelation 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. Some people may say, "Oh, that's not comforting at all." If you think about it, if we're fully on God's side then we don't have to worry about a whole lot. If our faith is in him always, we may have to worry about a physical death, or physical harm (maybe even emotional), but what can never be harmed unless we let it is our spiritual well-being. If we suffer a physical death and remain true to God's word even in the roughest of times, I believe that the gift of eternity will be more than anyone could ever ask for, and will be worth it in the end. Being marked by God would sure be better than having the mark of the beast. The sad part is, I'm not scared for myself anymore. I'm scared for the people I care for that makes me wonder if I could change what they believe. But that's enough to save them right? That makes plenty of sense. It's good that you care about others. I also worry about people I know. I suppose a majority of Christians probably have the issue about wanting to save their non-Christian friends. I always say we should pray for those people that they would come to God, confess their sins, and repent and turn their life towards him and be saved =] and sometimes just being a Christian and hanging around people that aren't believers, sometimes what we have rubs off on others like good morals. Sometimes if you notice, if your friends know you don't like certain types of talk like maybe gossip or bad language, they'll try to refrain from doing it around you and makin' you upset. I think that good morals can be contagious to others. We just need to be the best influence we can be without being too pushy =] Yeah, the thing is, I can't talk to my friends about God. One time I asked one of them and he told me "don't try to change me." He's got a christian friend back then and that friend was trying to change him, I'm not sure if they're still friends atm, so I don't know what to do..
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 4:44 am
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Feidetic Aquatic_blue Feidetic Aquatic_blue Feidetic Aquatic_blue When I was a kid, my Mom always told me to read Revelation after I've read the whole entire Bible so I never read Revelation until I was married and out of the house. I've read it time and time over and over again and it's all interesting to me. I Googled stuff about the book and some Christians believe that it was about the fall of Rome, but it doesn't match up to be the fall of Rome so why do some people believe that? A lot of Christians are saying it was about the past and isn't by any degree about the future and that doesn't match up either? Why can't Revelation be taken literally? People keep saying it has so many metaphors and symbolism that makes it an incredibly difficult book? While others say, "Oh, it can't be taken literally." I say, "Why not? He put the plagues upon Egypt in order to free his people so why couldn't he make locusts that had the faces of a human, hair of a woman, and tail of a scorpion that has the power to torment for five months?" Also, one last thing. Why do people underestimate God so much? I feel that they underestimate him quite often. I'm not trying to cause an argument, but these have been some questions on my mind and it would be interesting to see different view points and beliefs about it since I find it an overall interesting book. I also like to see what others believe about it so I'm aware of the other beliefs about it and all of that. I also don't believe churches talk about it enough, but I don't know if it's because they're afraid to teach on it and afraid they'll be wrong or if they don't care for the book in general, or maybe don't want to chase away people. Revelation is a book for the future. It didn't happen in the past. The most confusing part for me is the connection between tribulation and rapture, because preachers and pastors have different interpretations on it. Some of them believe that rapture is going to happen before tribulation [I believe that too], some says it will occur in the middle of tribulation and they say that the most popular is at the end of tribulation. Honestly, it scares me. There's a possibility that it's gonna happen literally. I understand your confusion between tribulation and rapture. Although, it's not 100% clear I suppose what will happen to all the believers. It does give detail about a lot of things, but I suppose only faith can make us 100% sure. I've heard some preachers say, "Oh, we're going to be taken up to Heaven before it all ends." while another says, "We're going to stay for part of it and then be taken into the Heaven's with Jesus." There are a few who say, "We'll see it all, and then be taken up to Heaven." I've heard more of before it happens and in the middle than in the end, but it's always possible that more will believe after it all happens. Yeah, it is a scary thing to think about, but there's also some verses in the Bible that are of some comfort (even one or so in Revelation): Revelation 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. Some people may say, "Oh, that's not comforting at all." If you think about it, if we're fully on God's side then we don't have to worry about a whole lot. If our faith is in him always, we may have to worry about a physical death, or physical harm (maybe even emotional), but what can never be harmed unless we let it is our spiritual well-being. If we suffer a physical death and remain true to God's word even in the roughest of times, I believe that the gift of eternity will be more than anyone could ever ask for, and will be worth it in the end. Being marked by God would sure be better than having the mark of the beast. The sad part is, I'm not scared for myself anymore. I'm scared for the people I care for that makes me wonder if I could change what they believe. But that's enough to save them right? That makes plenty of sense. It's good that you care about others. I also worry about people I know. I suppose a majority of Christians probably have the issue about wanting to save their non-Christian friends. I always say we should pray for those people that they would come to God, confess their sins, and repent and turn their life towards him and be saved =] and sometimes just being a Christian and hanging around people that aren't believers, sometimes what we have rubs off on others like good morals. Sometimes if you notice, if your friends know you don't like certain types of talk like maybe gossip or bad language, they'll try to refrain from doing it around you and makin' you upset. I think that good morals can be contagious to others. We just need to be the best influence we can be without being too pushy =] Yeah, the thing is, I can't talk to my friends about God. One time I asked one of them and he told me "don't try to change me." He's got a christian friend back then and that friend was trying to change him, I'm not sure if they're still friends atm, so I don't know what to do..
Sorry to say that we won't be able to change anyone. Although sometimes if we have strong faith, and a good, moral character...it can rub off on others without saying a word. I mean, my husband has had atheist friends randomly ask him about the Bible or something. We make them curious at points. Some don't care to know at all, but some wonder about us Christians. One method for turning atheists around is telling them about Revelation and what is going to happen, or verses that are about Hell. I mean, might not sound the nicest...although, don't directly tell them they're going to Hell or anything, but don't mention Salvation, either. There was a pastor my husband knows and he used that method on an atheist because he used to be one himself, and said the atheist's palms got sweaty and he looked scared and said, "Well, after all I've done...do I still have a chance at being saved?" The pastor said, "You sure do!" He turned around right then and there, which was amazing. Although it isn't always guaranteed to work, I don't think.
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