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chesiregirl

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:58 pm


Okay, so, since I learned of what Mary Sues are, I've been paranoid about each and every single OC, RPC and character I make being such a thing. This one I don't know. She's definitely not a full-blown Sue, but I get the feeling she's leaning on the Sue side. If you want, read through her profile and tell me your opinion, please.
A couple notes:
~This is a character for the Harry Potter fandom.
~If I write an OC based story, she will not be the main character. She's the "main character"s older sister.
Okay, here we go:

Name: Venus Carella Halloway (later becomes Venus Wood)
DOB: October 17, 1977.
Age: Two years older than Harry's gang.
Place of Birth: London, England.
Current Residence: Birmingham, England. (Later moves back to London)
Hair: Dark brown, straight, and waist-length. She usually wears it up in a messy bun during a Quidditch match or practice, and down with some sort of hair accessory outside Quidditch.
Eyes: Dark blue.
Height (in 3rd year): 5 ft. 7 in.
Build: Athletic and reasonably muscular, but with a touch of feminity. Very feminine facial features.
House: Hufflepuff
Friends: Cedric Diggory, Cho Chang, Katie Bell, Oliver Wood, Leanne, Zacharias Smith (whom she has a very strained friendship with, due to his...rudeness and disloyalty).
Best Subjects: Potions, Herbology.
Worst Subjects: History of Magic, Astronomy.
Electives: Ancient Runes, Muggle Studies.
Clubs: Dumbledore's Army, Hufflepuff Quidditch Team (beater).
Wand: Hornbeam, Dragon heartstrings, 12", brittle.
Broom: Nimbus 2000
Patronus: Cheetah.
Pet: A gray-colored female Western Screech owl named Lynn.
Boggart: A bloody, dying person that she can’t help (Riddikulus: The person sitting up, wiping the blood off their face, and making a sarcastic comment about her “What’re you looking at?”)
Amortentia: Vanilla, parsley, the ocean, amber.
Mother: Cecilia Vulpine Halloway (Formerly Cecilia Fisher. A half-blood witch, a broom maker. She's very curvy, of average height, has wavy dark brown hair that reaches her mid-back, and brown eyes. She has a very fox-like face.)
Father: Abbott Blasius Halloway (A pureblood wizard, a potioneer. He has straight, dark brown hair in a crew cut that's balding. He's plump and of average height, and has light blue eyes.)
Sister: Calypso Halloway (two years younger than Venus, who later becomes a wandmaker and marries Justin Finch-Fletchley.)
Godfather: Jerrick Oakley Archer (Her Father’s best friend, a photographer for the Daily Prophet. A muggleborn Gryffindor. He has glasses with thin, oval rims, straw-colored hair that is very well-kept and parted at a 7/3 ratio, dark brown eyes, and is average height and somewhere between lanky and muscular.)
Husband: Oliver Wood.
Daughters: Corliss Iria Wood and Amelia Julie Wood.
Son: Dalton Abraham Wood.
Other Relatives: Justin Finch-Fletchley (brother-in-law), Evangeline Finch-Fletchley (niece), Grayson Finch-Fletchley (nephew).
Likes: Quidditch (both playing and watching), makeup/generally girly things, cauldron cakes, pumpkin juice, purple, taking care of people, ballroom dancing, snow.
Dislikes: Messing up her hair or makeup, tea, red, wind, ice mice, Fleur (Venus is jealous of her), fish, loud noises.
Hobbies: Quidditch, makeup/hair, ballroom dancing, hanging out with her friends.
Dream: To be a healer or a mediwitch. If she looked in the Mirror of Erised, she'd see herself and the Hufflepuff Quidditch Team winning the Quidditch Cup or, in her later years at Hogwarts and after she graduates, tending to the sick and wounded at St. Mungo’s.
Positive Traits: She’s caring and motherly, she loves her family, hardworking, honest, and responsible.
Negative Traits: She’s very vain at times, can sometimes be pessimistic, skeptical, isn’t very...um...tactful, and has a slightly rebellious attitude.
Other:
~She has a crush first on Cedric Diggory (although they’re good friends, nothing romantic ever happens between them) and later on Oliver Wood.
~She always wears a lucky charm bracelet, and loves adding new charms to it all the time, and eventually gets so many that she can’t put them all on the bracelet at once. She changes them often, and keeps the other ones in a small wooden box in her trunk. During school hours, she wears black heels and thigh-high white socks with lace on the top.
~Her favorite Quidditch Team is the Sweetwater All Stars.
~She comes back to Hogwarts during the Battle of Hogwarts, and helps Madame Pomfrey tend to the wounded.
~ She often tries to get Calypso to wear makeup, much to Calypso’s displeasure.
~Like most Hufflepuffs, she wanted Cedric Diggory to win the Triwizard Tournament. She wore one of the “Support Cedric Diggory/Potter stinks” badges, but she rarely pushed it to make it say “Potter stinks”.
~Her favorite teacher is Professor Sprout.
~She wanted to enter the Triwizard Tournament, but was a year under the age limit.
Personality: Venus is a caring person, which is part of the reason why she becomes a healer. She takes great care in her appearance, always wanting her hair and makeup to look perfect. One year, she even bought Calypso a set of makeup for Christmas, insisting she try to “look more feminine”. She’s rather pretty (and obviously knows it), but is still jealous of Fleur, whose veela heritage makes her far more attractive. She can be rebellious at times, especially when Umbridge came to Hogwarts, which caused her to join Dumbledore’s Army along with her sister. She is also very hardworking, studying long and hard to get high enough grades to be a healer like she wanted. Most peers perceive her as a sort of motherly figure, but also juvenile in a way.
Bio: Venus was born in London, England, and moved to Birmingham when she was ten. In her first year of Hogwarts, she was sorted into Hufflepuff, which surprised her Gryffindor parents (her mother sent a very angry howler to both her and Calypso after their sortings). She admired the Quidditch players greatly, and immediately decided that she would be on their team one day.
Her second year of Hogwarts, she tried out for the Quidditch team, and just barely secured a position as beater.
Her third year, her sister Calypso was sorted into Hufflepuff with her. This year was when she first started to become friends with Cedric Diggory (and when she started to have a crush on him).
Her fourth year, she didn’t believe Harry was the heir of Slytherin, and didn’t treat him any differently than anyone else.
The summer before her sixth year, she went with her family and her sister’s best friend to the Quidditch World Cup, both her and her sister cheering for the Bulgarians. When she went back to school, she wanted to put her name in the Goblet of Fire, but couldn’t due to her age. She was asked to the Yule Ball by Zacharias Smith, which she accepted. They started dating after the Christmas holiday, and continued dating until halfway through the next year. She was horrified and depressed by Cedric’s death.
Her seventh year, she joined Dumbledore’s Army with her sister both because she believed Voldemort had returned (she was adamant that he had killed Cedric) and to rebel against Umbridge. Halfway through the year she broke up with Zacharias because she got tired of his doubtfulness of Harry’s claims that Voldemort had returned.
After she graduated Hogwarts, she began working as a healer at St. Mungo’s, and later started dating Oliver Wood. She returns during the Battle of Hogwarts, and helps Madame Pomfrey tend to the wounded (and yells at Zacharias for being a coward). After the battle, she eventually marries Oliver Wood. They have three children: first their daughter Corliss, then their son Dalton five years later, and then two years after that another daughter named Amelia.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:48 pm


Definitely sounds Sue-ish, simply because she has been involved in alot of major story events. I mean really, she was able to get to Hogwarts despite the fact that the place was practically under lockdown when the Dark Wizards attacked?

I mean, unless this is a story that is merely a parallel of the story and doesnt actually involve the main cast, then this character is a part of too many of the major events and in fact she is wearing shoes and leggings that would be completely against school code. Then there is the fact that she has seemingly conveniently rebellious and that was the only reason she joined Dumbledore's army, even though it was mostly made up of Gryfindors and one Ravenclaw student.

She has way too much in her overall profile and that is heading to Sue territory, and just because she isnt the main character is no excuse not to make her more balanced and believable. Plus, dark blue eyes? No one has dark blue eyes naturally.

Siegfried006


chesiregirl

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:16 pm


Siegfried006
Definitely sounds Sue-ish, simply because she has been involved in alot of major story events. I mean really, she was able to get to Hogwarts despite the fact that the place was practically under lockdown when the Dark Wizards attacked?

I mean, unless this is a story that is merely a parallel of the story and doesnt actually involve the main cast, then this character is a part of too many of the major events and in fact she is wearing shoes and leggings that would be completely against school code. Then there is the fact that she has seemingly conveniently rebellious and that was the only reason she joined Dumbledore's army, even though it was mostly made up of Gryfindors and one Ravenclaw student.

She has way too much in her overall profile and that is heading to Sue territory, and just because she isnt the main character is no excuse not to make her more balanced and believable. Plus, dark blue eyes? No one has dark blue eyes naturally.

Well, I can see where you're coming from with the whole part of the school in lockdown, but then again, the entire Weasley family, various Hogwarts alumni that were part of the DA, Neville's Grandma, and Oliver Wood all made it there. I assume that she returned around the same time Oliver Wood and the graduates of Hogwarts did. One of them explains that their coins warned them, and they all rushed there.
...How is it against school dress code? They aren't leggings, they're thigh-high socks, and I'm sure stockings and long socks were commonly worn by the female student body...at least in the movie version. I'm not sure what the girls would wear in the book under their robes. In the story I plan to combine the movie elements and book elements together, and for their uniforms I went with the movie version because in the book version the explanation of their clothing was rather vague and never gave me a clear image in my head.
It was made up of a number of different members of all the houses aside from Slytherin. There was a number of Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws along with Gryffindors.
Hufflepuffs: Justin Finch-Fletchley, Hannah Abbott, Ernie Macmillan, Susan Bones, Zacharias Smith.
Ravenclaws: Michael Corner, Terry Boot, Marietta Edgecombe, Cho Chang, Anthony Goldstein, Luna Lovegood.
There might be a few I forgot in there, but they are all clearly stated to be members of Dumbledore's Army. They may not have been in the "inner circle" so to speak, but they were a part of the actual army, and a number of them participated in the Battle of Hogwarts, including Hannah Abbott, Ernie Macmillan, Michael Corner, Cho Chang and Luna Lovegood.
Elizabeth Taylor's eyes are naturally such a dark blue that one might consider them violet, and she's a real person...and many people know others who have dark blue eyes naturally.
Either way, I thought she was Sueish for COMPLETELY different reasons than you did. I mean, she participates in major events that included a large amount of the school, and she didn't steal the spotlight, and I made sure that the Hufflepuff beaters are never clearly stated before making her one. I try to work my characters in as much as I can without contradicting canon too much. For example, it is never stated that Oliver Wood marries and/or has children after he graduates, so I put this character with him. Same goes for Justin Finch-Fletchley with the other character.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:27 pm


chesiregirl

Well, I can see where you're coming from with the whole part of the school in lockdown, but then again, the entire Weasley family, various Hogwarts alumni that were part of the DA, Neville's Grandma, and Oliver Wood all made it there. I assume that she returned around the same time Oliver Wood and the graduates of Hogwarts did. One of them explains that their coins warned them, and they all rushed there.
...How is it against school dress code? They aren't leggings, they're thigh-high socks, and I'm sure stockings and long socks were commonly worn by the female student body...at least in the movie version. I'm not sure what the girls would wear in the book.
It was made up of a number of different members of all the houses aside from Slytherin. There was a number of Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws along with Gryffindors.
Hufflepuffs: Justin Finch-Fletchley, Hannah Abbott, Ernie Macmillan, Susan Bones, Zacharias Smith.
Ravenclaws: Michael Corner, Terry Boot, Mariette Edgecombe, Cho Chang, Anthony Goldstein, Luna Lovegood.
There might be a few I forgot in there, but they are all clearly stated to be members of Dumbledore's Army. They may not have been in the "inner circle" so to speak, but they were a part of the actual army, and a number of them participated in the Battle of Hogwarts, including Hannah Abbott, Ernie Macmillan, Michael Corner, Cho Chang and Luna Lovegood.
The eye thing does, however make sense. I should change that.
Either way, I thought she was Sueish for COMPLETELY different reasons than you did. I mean, she participates in major events that included a large amount of the school, and she didn't steal the spotlight, and I made sure that the Hufflepuff beaters are never clearly stated before making her one. I try to work my characters in as much as I can without contradicting canon too much. For example, it is never stated that Oliver Wood marries and/or has children after he graduates, so I put this character with him. Same goes for Justin Finch-Fletchley with the other character.

I dont recall Oliver Wood being in the big battle of Hogwarts. Neither do I recall Neville's grandmother being there either. And the DA alumni were in their seventh year so they were already in the school when the Dark Wizards came so that explains there presence, as for Mama Wesley being there I have no idea why she was but thats another topic.
Its against school code because of the lace on the top. Normal school code for uniforms would never ever allow something with lace to be worn during school hours. Now when she has graduated and is not apart of the school anymore, she can wear what she wishes. But in school, it wouldnt happen, ever. As for the heels, when I think of heels I think like 3 inchers which also wouldnt be allowed. Female dress shoes would be a better term me thinks.

With those changes and maybe a little less time in the major events, like not being a part of DA, would make the character more believable. I mean, I cant see a character who is as mature as you say she is and as hard working with a clear goal as to what she wants all of the sudden being rebellious and joining the group for no good reason.

Siegfried006


chesiregirl

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:53 pm


Siegfried006
chesiregirl

Well, I can see where you're coming from with the whole part of the school in lockdown, but then again, the entire Weasley family, various Hogwarts alumni that were part of the DA, Neville's Grandma, and Oliver Wood all made it there. I assume that she returned around the same time Oliver Wood and the graduates of Hogwarts did. One of them explains that their coins warned them, and they all rushed there.
...How is it against school dress code? They aren't leggings, they're thigh-high socks, and I'm sure stockings and long socks were commonly worn by the female student body...at least in the movie version. I'm not sure what the girls would wear in the book.
It was made up of a number of different members of all the houses aside from Slytherin. There was a number of Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws along with Gryffindors.
Hufflepuffs: Justin Finch-Fletchley, Hannah Abbott, Ernie Macmillan, Susan Bones, Zacharias Smith.
Ravenclaws: Michael Corner, Terry Boot, Mariette Edgecombe, Cho Chang, Anthony Goldstein, Luna Lovegood.
There might be a few I forgot in there, but they are all clearly stated to be members of Dumbledore's Army. They may not have been in the "inner circle" so to speak, but they were a part of the actual army, and a number of them participated in the Battle of Hogwarts, including Hannah Abbott, Ernie Macmillan, Michael Corner, Cho Chang and Luna Lovegood.
The eye thing does, however make sense. I should change that.
Either way, I thought she was Sueish for COMPLETELY different reasons than you did. I mean, she participates in major events that included a large amount of the school, and she didn't steal the spotlight, and I made sure that the Hufflepuff beaters are never clearly stated before making her one. I try to work my characters in as much as I can without contradicting canon too much. For example, it is never stated that Oliver Wood marries and/or has children after he graduates, so I put this character with him. Same goes for Justin Finch-Fletchley with the other character.

I dont recall Oliver Wood being in the big battle of Hogwarts. Neither do I recall Neville's grandmother being there either. And the DA alumni were in their seventh year so they were already in the school when the Dark Wizards came so that explains there presence, as for Mama Wesley being there I have no idea why she was but thats another topic.
Its against school code because of the lace on the top. Normal school code for uniforms would never ever allow something with lace to be worn during school hours. Now when she has graduated and is not apart of the school anymore, she can wear what she wishes. But in school, it wouldnt happen, ever. As for the heels, when I think of heels I think like 3 inchers which also wouldnt be allowed. Female dress shoes would be a better term me thinks.

With those changes and maybe a little less time in the major events, like not being a part of DA, would make the character more believable. I mean, I cant see a character who is as mature as you say she is and as hard working with a clear goal as to what she wants all of the sudden being rebellious and joining the group for no good reason.

Oliver Wood was there. In the movies, he is seen flying in on a broomstick yelling, "Come on!" and in the book, Harry sees him and Neville carrying Colin Creevey's dead body back to the Great Hall. Have you read the book? The book is where they state that Gran, and the rest of the Weasley family come to help (Percy, Mr. Weasley, Fleur, Bill, Charlie and of course Ron, Ginny and the twins). Alumni means graduates. Katie Bell, Alicia Spinnet, Cho Chang and Angelina Johnson had already graduated in the 7th book, and it is clearly stated that they return as well.
Normal? Well they aren't exactly normal. They're a wizard boarding school in Britain, besides, every school I've ever been to never had anything in the dress code against lace. Also, the socks are thigh high, so the lace wouldn't be seen because of the skirt.
The proper term for "three inch heels" is stilettos. Her heels are probably noticable, but modest. However I could change the term used to deter confusion. It is stated in her profile prior to the statement of her joining DA that she can sometimes be described as rebellious, and that she can be juvenile at times as well. Also, who's to say that rebels can't be mature and hardworking? Actually, rebels are the most hardworking people I know...like Confederates. <3
Oh, by the way, she doesn't play a major part in any battles. She helps, but it's not like she takes down twenty Death Eaters on her own. She does her part in things, but never does anything amazing. Even if she WERE old enough to enter her name in the Goblet, for example, she wouldn't have been in the tournament. The goblet still would have chosen Diggory and Potter as the champions of Hogwarts.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:28 pm


chesiregirl
Siegfried006
chesiregirl

Well, I can see where you're coming from with the whole part of the school in lockdown, but then again, the entire Weasley family, various Hogwarts alumni that were part of the DA, Neville's Grandma, and Oliver Wood all made it there. I assume that she returned around the same time Oliver Wood and the graduates of Hogwarts did. One of them explains that their coins warned them, and they all rushed there.
...How is it against school dress code? They aren't leggings, they're thigh-high socks, and I'm sure stockings and long socks were commonly worn by the female student body...at least in the movie version. I'm not sure what the girls would wear in the book.
It was made up of a number of different members of all the houses aside from Slytherin. There was a number of Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws along with Gryffindors.
Hufflepuffs: Justin Finch-Fletchley, Hannah Abbott, Ernie Macmillan, Susan Bones, Zacharias Smith.
Ravenclaws: Michael Corner, Terry Boot, Mariette Edgecombe, Cho Chang, Anthony Goldstein, Luna Lovegood.
There might be a few I forgot in there, but they are all clearly stated to be members of Dumbledore's Army. They may not have been in the "inner circle" so to speak, but they were a part of the actual army, and a number of them participated in the Battle of Hogwarts, including Hannah Abbott, Ernie Macmillan, Michael Corner, Cho Chang and Luna Lovegood.
The eye thing does, however make sense. I should change that.
Either way, I thought she was Sueish for COMPLETELY different reasons than you did. I mean, she participates in major events that included a large amount of the school, and she didn't steal the spotlight, and I made sure that the Hufflepuff beaters are never clearly stated before making her one. I try to work my characters in as much as I can without contradicting canon too much. For example, it is never stated that Oliver Wood marries and/or has children after he graduates, so I put this character with him. Same goes for Justin Finch-Fletchley with the other character.

I dont recall Oliver Wood being in the big battle of Hogwarts. Neither do I recall Neville's grandmother being there either. And the DA alumni were in their seventh year so they were already in the school when the Dark Wizards came so that explains there presence, as for Mama Wesley being there I have no idea why she was but thats another topic.
Its against school code because of the lace on the top. Normal school code for uniforms would never ever allow something with lace to be worn during school hours. Now when she has graduated and is not apart of the school anymore, she can wear what she wishes. But in school, it wouldnt happen, ever. As for the heels, when I think of heels I think like 3 inchers which also wouldnt be allowed. Female dress shoes would be a better term me thinks.

With those changes and maybe a little less time in the major events, like not being a part of DA, would make the character more believable. I mean, I cant see a character who is as mature as you say she is and as hard working with a clear goal as to what she wants all of the sudden being rebellious and joining the group for no good reason.

Oliver Wood was there. In the movies, he is seen flying in on a broomstick yelling, "Come on!" and in the book, Harry sees him and Neville carrying Colin Creevey's dead body back to the Great Hall. Have you read the book? The book is where they state that Gran, and the rest of the Weasley family come to help (Percy, Mr. Weasley, Fleur, Bill, Charlie and of course Ron, Ginny and the twins). Alumni means graduates. Katie Bell, Alicia Spinnet, Cho Chang and Angelina Johnson had already graduated in the 7th book, and it is clearly stated that they return as well.
Normal? Well they aren't exactly normal. They're a wizard boarding school in Britain, besides, every school I've ever been to never had anything in the dress code against lace. Also, the socks are thigh high, so the lace wouldn't be seen because of the skirt.
The proper term for "three inch heels" is stilettos. Her heels are probably noticable, but modest. However I could change the term used to deter confusion. It is stated in her profile prior to the statement of her joining DA that she can sometimes be described as rebellious, and that she can be juvenile at times as well. Also, who's to say that rebels can't be mature and hardworking? Actually, rebels are the most hardworking people I know...like Confederates. <3
Oh, by the way, she doesn't play a major part in any battles. She helps, but it's not like she takes down twenty Death Eaters on her own. She does her part in things, but never does anything amazing. Even if she WERE old enough to enter her name in the Goblet, for example, she wouldn't have been in the tournament. The goblet still would have chosen Diggory and Potter as the champions of Hogwarts.

First off, yes I have read the book and I know what Alumni are, thank you very much.
*snort* Thigh high socks wouldnt fly in a uniform coded school either. Knee length or leggings and if she wears leggings they have to be black. Thats what uniform code states so arguing otherwise isnt going to change it.
What I mean is that her being mature and then her being rebellious wouldnt fly in a character design. They are on two different sides of the character spectrum and she happens to have this trait only to join the DA. Thats the only reason. Now if she had a legit reason for joining the DA, like Umbridge did something to her directly thats believable, then thats a proper reason to join the DA.
You said that before, but sneaking her into the place to help Pomfrey in healing is a major role because it implies that if she werent there more students would have died.
(Also, what do Confederates have to do with anything?)

Siegfried006


Mortok

Tipsy Exhibitionist

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:59 pm


Siegfried006

What I mean is that her being mature and then her being rebellious wouldnt fly in a character design. They are on two different sides of the character spectrum

I'm going to strongly dispute this point. Rebellion is not an inherently "immature" trait, it is entirely dependent on context. Is the Order of the Phoenix being "immature" in the seventh book, when they rebel against Voldemort's secret domination of the Ministry of Magic?

"Rebelling" against a parent because they took away your television privileges or whatever might be immature. Rebelling against a genuinely unjust, tyrannical power, such as, say, Dolores Umbridge, is a very mature and serious undertaking, not to mention, the right thing to do.

Dumbledore's Army is not a sleepover club where the kids tease Umbridge behind her back. It's a genuine attempt to arm fellow students with the knowledge they will need in a genuine self-defense situation, which Umbridge and the Ministry refuse to teach them for selfish political reasons.

If OP's OC really believes Voldemort has returned to power, then that's all the reason she needs to join the DA. It's not an immature decision at all, she genuinely believes there is a chance that she or a friend will be attacked, and she is making the proactive choice to learn how to defend herself.

Your suggestion, that she join the DA out of some sort of personal grudge against Umbridge, would be extremely immature. It suggests that she's only there to get some sort of revenge, which is both misguided and childish because there are bigger threats to worry about, and revenge against Umbridge is not the goal of the DA.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:59 pm


Mortok
Siegfried006

What I mean is that her being mature and then her being rebellious wouldnt fly in a character design. They are on two different sides of the character spectrum

I'm going to strongly dispute this point. Rebellion is not an inherently "immature" trait, it is entirely dependent on context. Is the Order of the Phoenix being "immature" in the seventh book, when they rebel against Voldemort's secret domination of the Ministry of Magic?

"Rebelling" against a parent because they took away your television privileges or whatever might be immature. Rebelling against a genuinely unjust, tyrannical power, such as, say, Dolores Umbridge, is a very mature and serious undertaking, not to mention, the right thing to do.

Dumbledore's Army is not a sleepover club where the kids tease Umbridge behind her back. It's a genuine attempt to arm fellow students with the knowledge they will need in a genuine self-defense situation, which Umbridge and the Ministry refuse to teach them for selfish political reasons.

If OP's OC really believes Voldemort has returned to power, then that's all the reason she needs to join the DA. It's not an immature decision at all, she genuinely believes there is a chance that she or a friend will be attacked, and she is making the proactive choice to learn how to defend herself.

Your suggestion, that she join the DA out of some sort of personal grudge against Umbridge, would be extremely immature. It suggests that she's only there to get some sort of revenge, which is both misguided and childish because there are bigger threats to worry about, and revenge against Umbridge is not the goal of the DA.
I didnt see that part of the profile, but now I do. But that wasnt what I was talking about, what I was talking about was that in my reading of the profile in her personality it states that "she can be rebellious at times, especially when Umbridge came to Hogwarts, which caused her to join Dumbledore's Army along with her sister".

Now in that single context, it doesnt fit with the overall character and distinctly reads as an anime trait, because that type of random trait in an overall character design is all over anime. Now her joining because she believed that Voldemort killed Cedric (though I would ask how) and that he returned to power, that would be a much better reason in my mind for this character to join DA.

As for my suggestion, this character is made out to be a healer and generally healers dont take sides in a conflict. They are there to take care of the sick and the injured. The only reason I would see a mature character joining a group like DA, regardless of what they stand for, is because if she had something personal involved make much more sense. Hence the believing Voldemort is back and killed Cedric who she has already stated as having a crush on.

Siegfried006


RADiiO SiiLENCE

Desirable Prophet

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:06 pm


Too me it seems like you started off with a non-sueish character.....and slowly started getting closer to the line. I say just watch out what(if any) more you add to her, since anything could make her an out right Mary Sue. If it was your intention of making her one then you're fine, if not then maybe you could rethink a couple things about her, even if she isn't a "main character" she has ties to one, which means if she's a sue and the main character isn't then you would have to explain why the two are so different.

I know people are different, but family wise peopel tend to mimick those around them, even siblings more than anything. For example(since I am an older sibling myself) me and my sister are polar oppisites in Real Life, but when it comes too small things she seems too mimick me. So you should keep the family, loved ones, ans even close friends, thing in mind when working on the character.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:39 pm


Siegfried006
chesiregirl
Siegfried006
chesiregirl

Well, I can see where you're coming from with the whole part of the school in lockdown, but then again, the entire Weasley family, various Hogwarts alumni that were part of the DA, Neville's Grandma, and Oliver Wood all made it there. I assume that she returned around the same time Oliver Wood and the graduates of Hogwarts did. One of them explains that their coins warned them, and they all rushed there.
...How is it against school dress code? They aren't leggings, they're thigh-high socks, and I'm sure stockings and long socks were commonly worn by the female student body...at least in the movie version. I'm not sure what the girls would wear in the book.
It was made up of a number of different members of all the houses aside from Slytherin. There was a number of Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws along with Gryffindors.
Hufflepuffs: Justin Finch-Fletchley, Hannah Abbott, Ernie Macmillan, Susan Bones, Zacharias Smith.
Ravenclaws: Michael Corner, Terry Boot, Mariette Edgecombe, Cho Chang, Anthony Goldstein, Luna Lovegood.
There might be a few I forgot in there, but they are all clearly stated to be members of Dumbledore's Army. They may not have been in the "inner circle" so to speak, but they were a part of the actual army, and a number of them participated in the Battle of Hogwarts, including Hannah Abbott, Ernie Macmillan, Michael Corner, Cho Chang and Luna Lovegood.
The eye thing does, however make sense. I should change that.
Either way, I thought she was Sueish for COMPLETELY different reasons than you did. I mean, she participates in major events that included a large amount of the school, and she didn't steal the spotlight, and I made sure that the Hufflepuff beaters are never clearly stated before making her one. I try to work my characters in as much as I can without contradicting canon too much. For example, it is never stated that Oliver Wood marries and/or has children after he graduates, so I put this character with him. Same goes for Justin Finch-Fletchley with the other character.

I dont recall Oliver Wood being in the big battle of Hogwarts. Neither do I recall Neville's grandmother being there either. And the DA alumni were in their seventh year so they were already in the school when the Dark Wizards came so that explains there presence, as for Mama Wesley being there I have no idea why she was but thats another topic.
Its against school code because of the lace on the top. Normal school code for uniforms would never ever allow something with lace to be worn during school hours. Now when she has graduated and is not apart of the school anymore, she can wear what she wishes. But in school, it wouldnt happen, ever. As for the heels, when I think of heels I think like 3 inchers which also wouldnt be allowed. Female dress shoes would be a better term me thinks.

With those changes and maybe a little less time in the major events, like not being a part of DA, would make the character more believable. I mean, I cant see a character who is as mature as you say she is and as hard working with a clear goal as to what she wants all of the sudden being rebellious and joining the group for no good reason.

Oliver Wood was there. In the movies, he is seen flying in on a broomstick yelling, "Come on!" and in the book, Harry sees him and Neville carrying Colin Creevey's dead body back to the Great Hall. Have you read the book? The book is where they state that Gran, and the rest of the Weasley family come to help (Percy, Mr. Weasley, Fleur, Bill, Charlie and of course Ron, Ginny and the twins). Alumni means graduates. Katie Bell, Alicia Spinnet, Cho Chang and Angelina Johnson had already graduated in the 7th book, and it is clearly stated that they return as well.
Normal? Well they aren't exactly normal. They're a wizard boarding school in Britain, besides, every school I've ever been to never had anything in the dress code against lace. Also, the socks are thigh high, so the lace wouldn't be seen because of the skirt.
The proper term for "three inch heels" is stilettos. Her heels are probably noticable, but modest. However I could change the term used to deter confusion. It is stated in her profile prior to the statement of her joining DA that she can sometimes be described as rebellious, and that she can be juvenile at times as well. Also, who's to say that rebels can't be mature and hardworking? Actually, rebels are the most hardworking people I know...like Confederates. <3
Oh, by the way, she doesn't play a major part in any battles. She helps, but it's not like she takes down twenty Death Eaters on her own. She does her part in things, but never does anything amazing. Even if she WERE old enough to enter her name in the Goblet, for example, she wouldn't have been in the tournament. The goblet still would have chosen Diggory and Potter as the champions of Hogwarts.

First off, yes I have read the book and I know what Alumni are, thank you very much.
*snort* Thigh high socks wouldnt fly in a uniform coded school either. Knee length or leggings and if she wears leggings they have to be black. Thats what uniform code states so arguing otherwise isnt going to change it.
What I mean is that her being mature and then her being rebellious wouldnt fly in a character design. They are on two different sides of the character spectrum and she happens to have this trait only to join the DA. Thats the only reason. Now if she had a legit reason for joining the DA, like Umbridge did something to her directly thats believable, then thats a proper reason to join the DA.
You said that before, but sneaking her into the place to help Pomfrey in healing is a major role because it implies that if she werent there more students would have died.
(Also, what do Confederates have to do with anything?)

I LOVE how in your attempt to prove me wron, you use the term "alumni" incorrectly, and when I tell you the correct meaning you have tha AUDACITY to say you "know what it means". NO you obviously DON'T, or you would have used it correctly. As I said, alumni of Hogwarts are people who finished their education at the school (INCLUDING 7TH YEAR) and graduated, therefore no longer attend school (EVEN 7TH YEAR) there. Did I mention that BEING IN 7TH YEAR does NOT make you Hogwarts ALUMNI because you haven't GRADUATED? The alumni were at the battle because of their coins. When the DA was formed, Hermione gave all members a fake gold Galleon, and when a new DA meeting was scheduled, the galleon would warm up, and the date and time would be displayed around the rim, where the goblin serial number would be on a real galleon. It is explained that most of the alumni kept their coins after the DA was disbanded AND they graduated, as a sort of souvenier. So the coin warned them about the battle at Hogwarts, and they came to fight. Oliver Wood came with his former Gryffindor teammates, who all had been in the DA (Katie Bell, Alicia Spinnet and Angelina Johnson). Venus was in the DA, therefore her coin alerted her.
Healers don't take sides? Perhaps not in the REAL world, but these are wizards and witches. Can you honestly tell me you believe Madame Pomfrey was running around healing DEATH EATERS? Venus was helping Madame Pomfrey heal the wounded on THEIR side, because it's simply stupid to say Madame Pomfrey was healing Voldemort's followers. It is NOT implied she saved more lives, because typically, most deaths in Wizard battles are instantaneous, ie THE KILLING CURSE. Very few wizards bled to death from a wound. Using your logic, ANY person could have prevented the deaths of others by fighting Death Eaters who would otherwise be shooting the killing curse everywhere.
What do confederates have to do with anything? Well, if you actually paid attention in school (doubtful judging by your interpretation of the word "heels" as "stilettos". Note I never even stated HIGH heels. Perhaps pumps would be more appropriate for you to understand the concept of MODEST heeled shoes.) you would confederates were hardworking rebels who fought a WAR to form their own country based on their own needs.

chesiregirl


VenusRain

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:20 pm


I'd agree that thigh-highs would probably be against dress code and that "heels" is extremely ambiguous wording, but that's about it besides that she's on the edge of Suedom. I'd have to see her in action to give a better account.

As a note, three-inch heels aren't necessarily stilettos; a stiletto has a very thin heel, like a blade. They're named after a type of knife for a reason. A three-inch heel without a thin heel is... a three-inch heel.

Also, Siegfried? You're making yourself look like a fool. Besides the fact that you were using words wrong and misremembered scenes and canon facts then got defensive when called out on it, you are offering up truly childish reasons to join the DA--the character is supposed to be mature in her rebellion, not childish.

As for you, chesiregirl... I'm assuming you're referring to the Confederate States of America with that statement? Because the American Civil War was not fought over beliefs, it was fought over slavery and saying anything else is historical sanitation and rewriting--it is certainly not a result of paying attention to history class. Plus, anyone calling themselves a "Confederate" today is an idiot--the Confederacy is long gone, and it won't be coming back--and most I've met are extremely racist. So while "confederate" does have alternate meanings, you weren't using them and are just showing a rather nasty side to yourself by holding them up as heros. Also, violet is not a human eye color unless the character has albinism and all the issues that come with it, despite what people call the color of whatever actress's eyes.

tl;dr, you two are making fools of yourselves.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:03 pm


VenusRain
I'd agree that thigh-highs would probably be against dress code and that "heels" is extremely ambiguous wording, but that's about it besides that she's on the edge of Suedom. I'd have to see her in action to give a better account.

As a note, three-inch heels aren't necessarily stilettos; a stiletto has a very thin heel, like a blade. They're named after a type of knife for a reason. A three-inch heel without a thin heel is... a three-inch heel.

Also, Siegfried? You're making yourself look like a fool. Besides the fact that you were using words wrong and misremembered scenes and canon facts then got defensive when called out on it, you are offering up truly childish reasons to join the DA--the character is supposed to be mature in her rebellion, not childish.

As for you, chesiregirl... I'm assuming you're referring to the Confederate States of America with that statement? Because the American Civil War was not fought over beliefs, it was fought over slavery and saying anything else is historical sanitation and rewriting--it is certainly not a result of paying attention to history class. Plus, anyone calling themselves a "Confederate" today is an idiot--the Confederacy is long gone, and it won't be coming back--and most I've met are extremely racist. So while "confederate" does have alternate meanings, you weren't using them and are just showing a rather nasty side to yourself by holding them up as heros. Also, violet is not a human eye color unless the character has albinism and all the issues that come with it, despite what people call the color of whatever actress's eyes.

tl;dr, you two are making fools of yourselves.

Okay, first off I can understand your heel argument. Second, how could they know whether she had on thigh-highs or simply stockings if the school skirt is knee-length? I'm pretty sure stockings would fly, how can they tell the difference with their skirts reaching their knees?
Okay, you haven't paid attention in history either. Slavery was not the ONLY (keyword -ONLY) reason the Civil War was fought. The war was fought over STATE'S RIGHTS. The drastic economic, ethical and enviornmental differences of the northern and southern states caused unrest in the south because they figured that the laws of the US weren't in their best interest. Slavery was A PART of that, because southern economy relied so heavily on slave labor. Why are the US soldiers of the Revolution considered heroes and not confederates? Because they lost? They're just as much of heroes as the Union soldiers, for different but equally just reasons.
The violet eyes...um my character's eyes are dark blue, and I don't think that woman's eyes are violet either. They are dark blue, like my character's. I mentioned her eyes to prove that dark blue eyes ARE possible to acheive naturally, because the woman's eyes DO look dark blue, but not violet.

chesiregirl


chesiregirl

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:10 pm


One_Of_The_Sadly_Fallen
Too me it seems like you started off with a non-sueish character.....and slowly started getting closer to the line. I say just watch out what(if any) more you add to her, since anything could make her an out right Mary Sue. If it was your intention of making her one then you're fine, if not then maybe you could rethink a couple things about her, even if she isn't a "main character" she has ties to one, which means if she's a sue and the main character isn't then you would have to explain why the two are so different.

I know people are different, but family wise peopel tend to mimick those around them, even siblings more than anything. For example(since I am an older sibling myself) me and my sister are polar oppisites in Real Life, but when it comes too small things she seems too mimick me. So you should keep the family, loved ones, ans even close friends, thing in mind when working on the character.

Thank you for knowing what you're talking about. I haven't "added" to her personality, exactly, but I have taken a bit away, for example she is no longer a "ballroom dancer".
The thing of her and her sister being so different...well she and her sister are like you and your sister, or me and my sister, or any other number of sisters out there - on the surface they seem different (the elder loves makeup and can play Quidditch, the younger hates makeup and is a horrible Quidditch player), but their core values and beliefs are the same. They probably share similar parenting styles and put the same emphasis on the religion, and so on and so forth.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:33 pm


chesiregirl
One_Of_The_Sadly_Fallen
Too me it seems like you started off with a non-sueish character.....and slowly started getting closer to the line. I say just watch out what(if any) more you add to her, since anything could make her an out right Mary Sue. If it was your intention of making her one then you're fine, if not then maybe you could rethink a couple things about her, even if she isn't a "main character" she has ties to one, which means if she's a sue and the main character isn't then you would have to explain why the two are so different.

I know people are different, but family wise peopel tend to mimick those around them, even siblings more than anything. For example(since I am an older sibling myself) me and my sister are polar oppisites in Real Life, but when it comes too small things she seems too mimick me. So you should keep the family, loved ones, ans even close friends, thing in mind when working on the character.

Thank you for knowing what you're talking about. I haven't "added" to her personality, exactly, but I have taken a bit away, for example she is no longer a "ballroom dancer".
The thing of her and her sister being so different...well she and her sister are like you and your sister, or me and my sister, or any other number of sisters out there - on the surface they seem different (the elder loves makeup and can play Quidditch, the younger hates makeup and is a horrible Quidditch player), but their core values and beliefs are the same. They probably share similar parenting styles and put the same emphasis on the religion, and so on and so forth.


Yeah no problem.

So I think that the same thing applies, you're tiptoeing to the line of her becoming a Mary-Sue by even taking things away. I know Ballroom Dancing might not be something but other things might, also I do believe it has to do with how people perceive her. Like for instance an example(though one that is over used) is Bella Swan from Twilight, according to everything set she does not reach the limitations to be considered a Mary-Sue, but people(including myself) still see her as one by the way she acts and holds herself in situations.

I understand the whole sibling thing, and I better understand it now. One thing I would do is make that more apparent because the first thing I thought was that these two sister just didn't act like they were related and other people would see that as something to pick on.

RADiiO SiiLENCE

Desirable Prophet


Siegfried006

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:39 pm


VenusRain
I'd agree that thigh-highs would probably be against dress code and that "heels" is extremely ambiguous wording, but that's about it besides that she's on the edge of Suedom. I'd have to see her in action to give a better account.

As a note, three-inch heels aren't necessarily stilettos; a stiletto has a very thin heel, like a blade. They're named after a type of knife for a reason. A three-inch heel without a thin heel is... a three-inch heel.

Also, Siegfried? You're making yourself look like a fool. Besides the fact that you were using words wrong and misremembered scenes and canon facts then got defensive when called out on it, you are offering up truly childish reasons to join the DA--the character is supposed to be mature in her rebellion, not childish.

As for you, chesiregirl... I'm assuming you're referring to the Confederate States of America with that statement? Because the American Civil War was not fought over beliefs, it was fought over slavery and saying anything else is historical sanitation and rewriting--it is certainly not a result of paying attention to history class. Plus, anyone calling themselves a "Confederate" today is an idiot--the Confederacy is long gone, and it won't be coming back--and most I've met are extremely racist. So while "confederate" does have alternate meanings, you weren't using them and are just showing a rather nasty side to yourself by holding them up as heros. Also, violet is not a human eye color unless the character has albinism and all the issues that come with it, despite what people call the color of whatever actress's eyes.

tl;dr, you two are making fools of yourselves.

Regardless of whatever facts I misrememberd, since I don't have the best of memory and it's been awhile since I've even read the series, I offered reasons as to why she was Sue-ish and that is all. Yea I may have gotten too defensive, but the end result is the same: the character needs some work done.
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