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 Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:02 am
So what is your opinion on God and creation... Personally i'm not too sure what to believe. I know i dont believe that we were all created in some huge explosion, but i dont know if i can believe that some "higher power" could create all this and leave the rest of the billion planets in the Universe dead and barren just beacuse... seems like a waste of space...
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Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:11 am
I don't believe in the Christian definition of God as omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient. If God were all-knowing, "He"'d see the crap going on in the world; all-good, "He"'d want to stop it; all-powerful, "He"'d have the power to stop it. Since there's still crap going on in the world, then God as defined above doesn't exist. As evidence, I cite the wars, starvation, murders, etc. that have gone on throughout history and that continue today.
Another issue I have with the Christian deity is the "He" thing. Men aren't perfect (neither are women), but God is supposedly perfect. Grammatically, "he" is supposed to be generic (as people use "they" - "Someone left their backpack here; they must not need it very much."), so I can forgive that, I guess. The word "He" really isn't as generic as prescriptive grammarians think, though, but that's a whole other topic.
I've noticed that a lot of religions have the same basic tenets - there's one god (or a "leader" god, or some non-god person in charge), don't kill others, don't steal, etc. D'you suppose maybe this leader-being is all the same guy (more in the theist religions than the atheist ones)? So, do the little differences really matter? Yet people are killed because their beliefs are different from someone else's. See the Crusades as an example.
So then, you ask, where do you think the Universe come from if God didn't create it? A complicated question.
My faith is in science rather than religion. I accept the scientific theories more readily than religious myths. I know science doesn't have the answers, but I think in several lifetimes they might. Yeah, I know, what good does that do us now :p
I see religions as stagnant - they think they have all the answers already, so there's no point in searching for better or merely different answers. Science, on the other hand, is always questioning and searching for a better-fitting theory. Or so I see it.
So then, Sheer, where'd the Universe come from?
I don't think a being or a deity created everything (see First Cause argument - what created the being?), but I do believe that a Force helped create the universe.
So, where'd this Force come from?
I don't know (see First Cause argument), but I think it sounds better than claiming some old wizard in robes created the universe. Forces are present and known in every-day life - gravity, for instance, or magnetism. I've yet to see signs of a deity.
So yeah. That's my thought process. ^.^ $5 says Raiden doesn't read it wink
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Angelic_Highlights Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 10:12 am
Oh this is going to be long. sweatdrop
I have many views and oppinions on this subject and i mean no disrespect for anyone. My view on god personally is that he does not exist. I don't care who has seen enlightenment or had incounters with him unless i have personally seen it and felt it myself then it doesn't happen. So i suppose i still go with the "unless i see, feel or hear it, it doesnt exist" Anyway...i believe that god has been fabricated over the years, the bible is truely only been passed down by word of mouth. So what is stopping some person adding there own bit to it, changing the words and so forth. Eventually it is changed so much that it doesnt even look similar to what it was in the first place.
God in my eyes i don't see how he can exist when so much is going wrong with the world, sure he made man.. and that is our worst downfall yet, we truely are our worst enemys in this world. But there is somethings which we didn't do and therefore im often left wondering how he could be real and justify something such as a huge tornado killing millions, sure it is a natural disaster but still... it must come from somewhere and if he made everything then why oh pray tell did he make that.
Christians well i have noticed that there not all that bad, some of course take it too seriously and ram every little bit of there faith down your throat and of course me being a shaman and a practising one through family lines apparently im going to be going straight to hell.. but get that could be this world so frankly im gonna party amongst the flames. Also they say the bible is to be all and see all.. but it is words writted on a book which they have changed to suit the times and keep there followers, since when has any religion HAD to change to keep there faith... faith comes from within and within only, not because a book has pretty pictures or writing in it.
For instance in the king james bible it said god repented, but wasnt he meant to be perfect so why should be feel the need to repent, and then with the new testements oh lordy it isnt in it. So therefore they have changed something and removed it because it didnt suit there new religion. Plus many have said jesus died for us but personally i dont think he was thinking im going to die right now to save everyone else or to save good old samantha.. i think he didnt have a choice so therefore it happened, like people in deathrow... um yea it is kinda a bad example but... best i can do lol...
I dont believe he made the world because were making it right now, we came from science people say others say we came from something else... but he did not create the world im sitting my a** on now... were creating it with every year that passes, some for the good and some for the bad...
Christians no offence but they think there god is the only one out there and that it is the best and all should follow but if he is that good then why is he sitting on that cloud not helping anyone in the world, he is said to be powerful so why isnt he stopping the wars, children being hurt or animals, sure mans to blame mostly but if this is a world he made surely he didnt have the vision of it looking like it does right now...
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Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 11:32 am
xd is so glad this is generating some great responces...
well i'm not going to say a whole lot about the creation of the world but i more wanted to point out my views on what you both have expressed on War, Starvation, Disaster, ect...
and i'm using the term "god" here very loosely just for a point of reference.
I dont think it's gods place to stop these things from happeneng and i have different feeling about each circumstance, let's start off with war.
90% of all the wars in all the world is religous based, it's true. But why should god stop people from fighting for what they want to believe. It is not god in this picture who i think is the wrong-doer but the people who feel so strongly that their religion is more important that they would go against it! just to prove so.. it's sad and overly hypocritical of humans.
Second: Starvation, it's a sad pitiful death and not something i would wish on anyone, but if god were able to stop all the starvation and did, think how the world itself would have to change and react. There is only so much space on this earth and we need alot of it to grow our own food and live... if no one was hungry all the worlds resources would be used at an alarming rate and overpopulation would become an even greater problem than it already is. I'm not saying god is right to let people starve and i wish that these people could live healthy and strong lives just like the majority but the problems it would cause if they did would weigh down upon the worlds population heavily.
Lastly: Distaster, another thing not controlled or prevented by humans.. A tsunami hits florida... tornados ravage texas, lightning strikes down a golpher... Believe it or not when facing a natural disaster (usually) minimal people die and afterwards it really streaghtens the bonds between individuals and whole citys. It's an unexpected catylist the seperates the good from the bad and i dont think god has a right to prevent such things from occuring since sometimes the world needs a jolt.
there are many sad and depressing things, people everywhere say... "if they could just get a little help from god" but god wants us to influence eachother to go to those people, show them it's not god who is making the miracles anymore, he is only ever influencing them.
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Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 11:42 am
The only thing that I question is what created the universe... I have no clue how this just all happened.
As for God...
People believe in God, so God is a belief. It all depends on the person. Do I believe in him? Perhaps... God isn't really a problem to me but religion and the Bible are. People die over religion and the Bible discriminates against gays and creates hypocrites throughout society - that makes me unhappy with religion but then I look at the people who are happy and have hope... They believe and I shouldn't have any influence on them, so I don't.
As long as I don't get hit up with - You're going to hell for being gay or pray everyday, then I'm fine... I just don't like religion inforcers.
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Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:23 pm
*nods* i completely agree, thats what annoys me the most, im always having people say that to me, like im going to hell.. but end of the day i live my life the way i want to, and it suits my needs smile
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Angelic_Highlights Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:46 pm
An interesting story...one that illustrates how there can be a God, and still be evil. Please note that this is a story, an illustration only, and should be taken as such; and yet, it gives a very interesting point. Quote: The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!" "God created everything? The professor asked. "Yes sir", the student replied. The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil". The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth. Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?" "Of course", replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?" "What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question. The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat." The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?" The professor responded, "Of course it does." The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present." Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?" Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil." To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exists, just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light." The professor sat down.
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Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 11:28 am
thats a good story smile see this is what is utterly difficult when it comes to proving does god exist or does he not... no one can give the right truth for either outcomes...
Some can say he exists through a feeling and nothing more but then others could say that feeling came from those around us and not god him/herself.
it is such a mind boggling concept really.
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Angelic_Highlights Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 10:34 am
I can see where someppl are coming from when they say 'if there was a god why is there so much evil' and i no i'll get people questioning my beliefs after this but with out evil how would people learn from there mistakes, also God lets certain things happen for reasons but i'm not saying i think everything that happens should happen. Taking the tsunami as an example i think something must have been going on over there that he wasn't happy with, but to send a tsunami... i felt extremely sad for the people that where affected crying . But lets supose that god wanted to punish some people and the devil took thing to far - God doesn't punish people he gives the devil a certain amount of authority to do so.
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:29 am
There is no logical way some dude in the clouds controls everything on this planet. It does NOT fit in! People always say "The Bible says so!" The bible is equivalent to CRAP! No one really knows who wrote it!
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:09 am
There is no logical way for many things, but it doesn't mean they are untrue or impossible and you'll know that is you have ever flown in a plane there is no guy sat up there controling what happens on earth with a magic wand or powers.
And yes we do know who wrote the bible god and his prophets, apostles and jesus' dicsiple's. As a christian we know this because it says, you would know this if you had even read the fist chapter even the first 12 or so lines in each book in the Bible. Just to prove this, do you really think that the world would sell the bible giving false statements about how to live your life if they had no proof. Sripts were recovered that read these things. All that has happened is they have been translated, people have realized how old they are by various techniques (which is known only in thier trades.) Not only have scripts been recovered but they have diaries and documents dating back thousands of years
You read about Charles Darwin and his theory of reveloution in science but they never tell you that in his later years he took back all he said about evealution because every door he opened lead to a creator and fair enough, you find it hard to believe, but even the chemicals and things that *air quotation* 'Created' the big bang must have been created themselves. And again fair enough you may not think it is God, but the fact is that, that is the only explanation (other then the big bang) that SCIENTISTs have come up with to explain how the earth came about, due to a creator- God
Everyone is entitled to there opinion but don't give opinions giving FALSE facts 'The bible is equivalent to CRAP!' if it was equivalent to crap why is it the worlds best selling books
Real facts-
The Bible - world's best-selling book.
www.soon.org.uk/page19.htm
1. The world's best selling book
The Guiness Book of Records acknowledges the Bible as the world's best selling book.
"It has been estimated that between 1815 and 1975 some 2.5 billion copies of the Bible were printed ... Since 1976 combined global sales of Today's English Version ... have exceeded 118 million copies." (Guinness Book of Records)
These sales are for only one of the many versions of the Bible available.
If you are a person who thinks the Bible is an outdated book just sitting unread on bookshelves, think again!
http://www.changinglivesonline.org/why-read-the-bible.html#reasons
You can even check these facts are true by the links provided.
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:02 pm
Sakura-Kyoukan So what is your opinion on God and creation... Personally i'm not too sure what to believe. I know i dont believe that we were all created in some huge explosion, but i dont know if i can believe that some "higher power" could create all this and leave the rest of the billion planets in the Universe dead and barren just beacuse... seems like a waste of space... well i definatly believe SOMETHING bigger is out there. and i do know that its pretty ignorant of us to concider that we are the only type of life form in this universe. so what im saying is have a little faith in the big guy. dont believe all the crap they try to teach u in church because its all just a huge conspiracy cover up anyway. (( dont get me started on THAT subject.)) the important thing is to be a decent person, and follow the 10 commandments... besides the whole other life thing ((i dont know if you ever herd of or believe in Julia brown)) but shes a psykick (dont know how to spell that) and she said that "aliens" are here on earth right now. and that after we find another planet in our solar system that in the year 2010 they will finally reveal themselves to use. guess what? they found a new planet already. (if u hadnt already herd.)
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:04 pm
oh and heres a peice of advise:
(clears throught)
"If you live as if there is no God, then you better be right!"
3nodding
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:47 pm
Sheer_Immortal I don't believe in the Christian definition of God as omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient. If God were all-knowing, "He"'d see the crap going on in the world; all-good, "He"'d want to stop it; all-powerful, "He"'d have the power to stop it. Since there's still crap going on in the world, then God as defined above doesn't exist. As evidence, I cite the wars, starvation, murders, etc. that have gone on throughout history and that continue today. Another issue I have with the Christian deity is the "He" thing. Men aren't perfect (neither are women), but God is supposedly perfect. Grammatically, "he" is supposed to be generic (as people use "they" - "Someone left their backpack here; they must not need it very much."), so I can forgive that, I guess. The word "He" really isn't as generic as prescriptive grammarians think, though, but that's a whole other topic. I've noticed that a lot of religions have the same basic tenets - there's one god (or a "leader" god, or some non-god person in charge), don't kill others, don't steal, etc. D'you suppose maybe this leader-being is all the same guy (more in the theist religions than the atheist ones)? So, do the little differences really matter? Yet people are killed because their beliefs are different from someone else's. See the Crusades as an example. So then, you ask, where do you think the Universe come from if God didn't create it? A complicated question. My faith is in science rather than religion. I accept the scientific theories more readily than religious myths. I know science doesn't have the answers, but I think in several lifetimes they might. Yeah, I know, what good does that do us now :p I see religions as stagnant - they think they have all the answers already, so there's no point in searching for better or merely different answers. Science, on the other hand, is always questioning and searching for a better-fitting theory. Or so I see it. So then, Sheer, where'd the Universe come from? I don't think a being or a deity created everything (see First Cause argument - what created the being?), but I do believe that a Force helped create the universe. So, where'd this Force come from? I don't know (see First Cause argument), but I think it sounds better than claiming some old wizard in robes created the universe. Forces are present and known in every-day life - gravity, for instance, or magnetism. I've yet to see signs of a deity. So yeah. That's my thought process. ^.^ $5 says Raiden doesn't read it wink 1. God never created all this crapin the world, man did 2. God is eternal, he is for ever, a concept our minds can't grasp 3. God sees the crap in the world, but man made this problem, not him 4. Religion doesn't have all the answers, but has seen the past to know their remaining questons will be answered.
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:51 pm
Goddess Ace The only thing that I question is what created the universe... I have no clue how this just all happened. As for God... People believe in God, so God is a belief. It all depends on the person. Do I believe in him? Perhaps... God isn't really a problem to me but religion and the Bible are. People die over religion and the Bible discriminates against gays and creates hypocrites throughout society - that makes me unhappy with religion but then I look at the people who are happy and have hope... They believe and I shouldn't have any influence on them, so I don't. As long as I don't get hit up with - You're going to hell for being gay or pray everyday, then I'm fine... I just don't like religion inforcers. Your not going to hell for being gay, your going to hell for not believing in Christ's sacrafice. And by the way, the Bible dosen't make hypocrits, God doesn't make hypocrits, human nature makes hypocrrits.
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